In terms of zealotry and impact Thatcher was like a 20th century Oliver Cromwell...

[High Quality Kick and Run]

and at least after Cromwell died we got to dig up his bones and have him hung, drawn and quartered.

...if we are not to have this happy public spectacle this time then at least we should be thankful, I suppose, that unlike Cromwell, Thatcher was not followed into power by her offspring.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Because those were the people who dug Cromwell up, y'see? Never had you pegged as one of those, tbh, but you live and learn.

Or perhaps you're just historically and ideologically illiterate?

I wonder which. :rubchin:

[redgunamo]

[modd]

Expensive funeral. Why not keep it private.

[Classic Jorge]

[modd]

At least she never made out she like everyone unlike them.

[modd]

[Classic Jorge]

I think it's basically just the reactionary/contrarian nature of the british people.

Fundamentally we lack imagination but give us something to kick against and we're as happy as pigs in ****.

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

Now they mostly just restrict their creativity to things they can either fry or stab.

[Berni]

HQK&R is at least right on that score. Thatcher was very much heir to that slightly dour, humourless, protestant/non-conformist radical tradition of parsimony, continence and duty that, while it is not the most attractive facet of the English people, is the bit that actually gets sh*t done.

See also the abolition of the slave trade; the industrial revolution; birth of the labour movement, etc, etc, etc.

[modd]

She divided a lot of people

[Berni]

Henry VIII now - he did divide a lot of people.

[Ashberto]

manifestation of patriotism.

I'm no fan of imperialism, chauvinism or aggressive warmongery but I don't hate my own country. On the contrary.

[Classic Jorge]

And anyway, in terms of Wilberforce and the Labour Movement, I'm pretty sure Thatch would have dismissed both as 'wets' and naieve idealists.

She was more fond of the Burkean/Hobbsean than she was Thomas Paine.

[modd]

Just saying some love her and some hate get. But at least unlike modern.politicans you knew where she stood

[Classic Jorge]

But the idea of familiarity breeding contempt probably holds fairly true there.

[modd]

I still think we good country at heart

[Guns 'n' Roses]

[modd]

They become

[Luis Anaconda]

He was a proper king b. He would have been at home in Game of Thrones

[redgunamo]

Michael Corleone put it quite well although I forget exactly how.

[Berni]

Generally, there has to be a pragmatic principle at work or it won't happen (although the abolition of slavery is the major exception, being probably the first time in history a nation has acted against its own perceived interests simply because it believed it was right to do so).

[Luis Anaconda]

it is that you can kill anyone"

[Berni]

[Ashberto]

At least as dangerous as patriotism imo. Basically it's a licence for powerful countries to bully weaker ones on spurious grounds. Liberal humanitarians, laptop bombadiers - ugh.

[Berni]

[redgunamo]

No. The one I mean was to do with being embarrassed about wealth, as a ploy to fool the poor.

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

:hide:

[Classic Jorge]

I'd prefer Enlightenment European if we're chucking labels around, not that's necessarily helpful.

I cant help the country I was raised in and am not really blessed with the social mobility that would perhaps make a move abroad that easy. Though, if the whole implosion of the financial hadnt have happened I would probably making a hash of living in Spain or Ireland right now.

[redgunamo]

And some of us are right.

Although perhaps that's just housewives for you.

[Classic Jorge]

or those tiny few who benefitted from the fall of communism so massively that they ended up as rich as croesus.

[Classic Jorge]

[Peter]

Which often relates to extremities.

If we represent anything politically it is the ability to achieve peaceful and gradual reform at apprriate points. It is precisely that ability which avoids the need for genuinely 'radical' reform.

In other words it gets done just very, very slowly.

[redgunamo]

And carpet bombing.

And how best to avoid sniper fire.

And how there's no such thing as an alcohol ban when British reporters and FCO bigwigs are around.

[Ashberto]

Mopeds. Coffee outside. Ciao!

Mussolini.

[redgunamo]

[Ashberto]

[Peter]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

I know you lefties like wading ankle-deep in the blood of whoever it is you've decided you don't like that morning, but it's hell on the dry-cleaning bills.

[Peter]

Look at the birth of the labour movmeent. Far too polite by anybody's standards. It was pnly the inclusion of a few middle class ponces that forced the word socialism onto the agenda.

We are a dull, 4-4-2 kind of a country.

Apart from when it comes to rock n roll where we are f**king great :-)

[redgunamo]

do not have that luxury. They actually have to get things done. Not just talk about getting things done.

[Classic Jorge]

And like all Northern Europeans we're secretly jealous of the southern europeans with their dashing virility, carefree attitudes and baroque Catholicism.

And yes, their pleasingly shambolic, inefficient and easier-to-depose dictators

[Classic Jorge]

not one of your bonniest mots, rg

[Berni]

[Peter]

Was terribly un-english, with pragmatism far too low on the agenda.

Rather un-conservative as well.

What a c**t :-)

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[modd]

:hehe:

[Classic Jorge]

The Singer/Guitar/Bass/Drums set up is the musical equivalent of a flat midfield

[Peter]

the inability of your opponent to launch an amphibious assault. :-)

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

My house is normally full of Europeans and carpet bombing them on a regular basis would be just the job, I reckon.

It's just that the hounds wouldn't like it at all.

[Berni]

The English are naturally a fairly relaxed, tolerant and indolent lot, who generally will do anything for the quiet life and loathe being hectored. Unfortunately, there come times in their history when it is necessary for someone a bit strident, tiresome, single-minded and - yes - radical to stir up the bottom of the pond a bit and do what needs to be done.

It's a shame, by the way, that you felt the need to augment what was otherwise a perfectly good point with the last bit, which - in common with much anti-Thatcher stuff over the last few days - had all the value and dignity of a toddler shouting 'BUM!' in church.

[Berni]

Oh, do tell, j! I can't wait for this bit. Who are the most and least European Europeans, exactly? Because - and I hate to break this to you - quite a lot of Europeans would regard us as barely being European at all.

All a question of perspective, see?

[redgunamo]

Fortunately though, it also funds anti-terrorism :thumbup:

[Luis Anaconda]

[redgunamo]

think that Europe is wonderful have only ever been to somewhere like Stockholm in the Summer. Or Magaluf, or Oktoberfest.

And then they wonder why they simply cannot understand things like Treblinka or Sarajevo.

[The JBear]

[High Quality Kick and Run]

Always good to comeback to a comeback from you anyhow....

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

under Moorish rule. So's Sicily and Southern Italy. Are these places less European than - say - Bradford?

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

http://www.tobaccospecialists.co.uk/upload/eric-morecambe.jpg

[Peter]

[Peter]

You cant say anything these days :banghead:

[redgunamo]

[Berni]

How very quaint of you, j.