here is the premier league net spending since 2003, how can the anti wenger crew explain this?

[plastic james]

Premiership net spending
2003-2012

1- chelsea ..............527 million
2- man city .............434 million
3- Liverpool.............157 million
4- Manu..................128 million
5- Aston villa...........106 million
6- Tottenham...........97 million
7- Stoke.................73 million
8- Sunderland..........70 million
9- Qpr.....................50 million
10- West ham............35 million
11- WBA...................29 million
12- Fulham................27 million
13- Norwich...............10 million
14- Everton...............5 million
15- Newcastle...........4 million
16- Swansea..............2 million
17- Wigan.................135 thousand
18- Southampton .......- 7 million ( 7 million in profit)
19- Reading..............- 8 million ( 8 million in profit)
20- Arsenal.............. -23 million ( 23 million in profit)


If you look at this list and you still think wenger is holding us back, then you need help. What wenger is doing is beyond belief.

Add this list which shows we spent less than anyone on our team during the past few years, to the other list i showed few days ago which demonstrated how our rivals revenues is increasing while ours have decreased.

http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&th=524697 &rid=467&S=b183bc4bf49d0289270b961de0665fb0 (http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&th=524697&rid=467&S=b183bc4bf49d0289270b961de0665fb0)


Can you see us spending more money anytime soon? We starves us to death yet our revenues have gone down, if you refuse to eat in an attempt to lose weight and you still gain weight, most of you would realise it isn’t working ( maybe not the anti wenger crew). Our current business model will not make us competitive in 1 years, 4 year our 10 years time. Forget that nonsense.


We’re doomed, wenger is holding this ship together, we’ve built a house of cards and we’re about to witness the collapse. If your answer is sack wenger then don’t worry even wenger cant pull this off for much longer, this is unsustainable. We can’t invest so little on our team and expect trophies or even champions league.


.source, http://transferleague.co.uk/

.

[wibble the lobster]

impressive table.

of course you do know you ahev to factor in wages as well. I am sure that would lift us right up the table.

Randome pretence that I am too cool to be interested in football this team and all this stuff: "The radishes in Indonesia cope with space exploration better than German Bight chaffinches"

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

It simply suggests we sold well, or sold lots, in order to balance figures within the business model.

A further table of expenditure only (player sigings) would probably not see us in 20th position.

[Peeler]

http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif

[Free SL]

and large hit the ceiling at the moment. They have gone up next to nothing (in the grand scheme of the accounts) in the period from 2006 to 2011.

The only way we will be able to compete, as I said on your last thread, is if we realise the potential £35M that we are short of the likes of United/Chelsea on shirt/sponsorship deals. If we could then not tie ourself into an exclusive deal (like the current emirates deal) we would have scope to have a different sponsor on our training kit (which could generate another £5/£10M per year).

We will know a lot more about our club, and it's ambition, in the next 2 years once the current deals are renewed.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Free SL]

we've spent some fairly big amounts on quite a few players. Just been offset by getting bigger amounts in.

[barrybueno]

[Red N White Army]

[JUNGLEMAN]

[plastic james]

it shows how wenge buys cheap, improve players and sell them for high fees.

it demonstrates the reason we made money is linked to wengers talent of creating stars. it shows he gets no help from the club to compete, it also shows, any other manager cannot come in and do his job.

it also shows, it cant be done forever

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

:theo:

[Redflag]

A rather simplistic approach this to just use the net spending of other clubs compared to ours.
Wenger has the 4th largest wage bill in the league,and he has made huge profits on selling top players without replacing them in kind.
Also if he is being short-changed by Stan then why doesn't he say so then?
The fact is that Wenger,Stan,Ivan and Co all back each other up - as Peter Hill Dud said,thank you for taking an interest in Arsenal Football Club. He could easily have added,now f**k off.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Loyal *******s but still *******s in places.

it shows he gets no help from the club to compete - the club/board makes money available to him every summer to spend as he sees fit, it it didn't we would be in deep ****. There is further money to spend than has been done (allegedly). Sometimes the decision not to spend further is down to one man. One example would be in the summer just past where no midfield signings were made on the flip of a coin regarding the fitness of Diaby & Wilshere. Most people were okay with this at the time as Jack is the saviour to lead us to Wembley next May.

it also shows, any other manager cannot come in and do his job - that is your belief, fair enough. It however cannot ever be proven and if anything can only be judged after retrospective analysis of his successor.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[East Upper for Supper]

[plastic james]

in 2005 our commercial income was 34 million. manu had commercial income of 51 million


in 2011 our commercial income was 46 million...manu was at 103 million.


that development is staggering and its similar to other top teams.

by the time you say our shirt deal goes up, so will manu's commercial income and they will pull further ahead

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

My comment was merely a note on how his star rose during his absence.

I look forward to his red card tomorrow.

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[bostonbrian]

[plastic james]

no manager would say no to spending money, and you choose to believe the clubs party line despite me demonstrating how our revenues has gone down while our rivals are getting richer from commercial deals.


let me make one thing clear, if not spending has been a policy for years, soon enough as the top teams pull away in income revenues, we will have no choice, as we're swimming in mid table mediocrity and wenger long gone, you can then blame the poor f.cker managing our sh.te squad and claim, he doesnt want to spend money.

[Red N White Army]

[Redflag]

I wasn't asking a question I pasted an abbreviated quote from Plastic James post - he asked the question .
Do you normally worry about such trivialities?

[Red N White Army]

And anyway, no-one is arguing that he hasn't done a great job. It's just that it might have been better had he been willing to spend a bit more of the cash in reserve. Might

[plastic james]

but not spending money guarantees failure.

ie all winners of the league has spent money while all the spenders haven't won the league.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Wanted to leave and we sold them for big money. Wenger hasn't been forced to buy and sell and turn a profit, it's just happened that way because our relative ****ness or better offers from oil rich clubs has lead to players wanting to leave.

[Steve-OH]

http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=3580 202&rid=4253&S=772b1c3b87f371fcf4911a185d1c577a (http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=3580202&rid=4253&S=772b1c3b87f371fcf4911a185d1c577a)

[plastic james]

because when we sell a player for huge money, we've put in alot of time in him, improved him, and he has become a huge part of the team, as we sell a star, and replace with a cheaper player, we then must spend time on improving him and building a new team.

this is why we cant win the league.

however if we sell star players and replace them with other star players......or even add big players to what we have.

1- we wouldn't be in profit

2- we would have a strong team.

my whole point is this the money making excise puts strains on the team. and no matter how good a job a manager does, its unsustainable, sooner or later you need to buy quality.

[Peter]

The board make money available to him for signings every summer?

Interesting. Having pointed put the difference between net and gross spending you now splodge the two together with a spin statement. The summer before last there is precisely no evidence that the money was available BEFORE cesc and nasri left. The last minute splurge suggests the opposite.

Either way there is a huge difference between a club saying 'here is 30 million to spend' and them saying 'well, you have just raised 50 million from selling your best players, here is half of it to replace them with'

I did hear our gross spend on the same period the other day and it is much, much lower than other clubs arpund us. Lower than newcastle, liverpool, much lower than spurs. Still, net spend is more significant when you are actively selling your best players.

I also like the way you justify the low net spend by referring to our constant selling of players, as though that somehow makes wenger's performance less admirable.

Where we may have an issue is the wage bill. There is clearly a growing feeling that we are not making best use of our huge wage bill.

[Peter]

All we know is that we have raised plenty of it and not spent it all.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Red N White Army]

Remains to be seen. Some of the frustrations at AW aren't just related to spending though. It's that the team has been making the same mistakes over and over again for the last 5-6 years, even with different personnel. Not that I'd dare tell AW how to do his job, but that's enormously frustrating.

[Peter]

And for some reason decides not to spend it. I still struggle with that.

Not entirely happy with the phrase 'balanced by sale'. Almost makes them sound coincidental when the more likely explanation is that without the sale we wouldnt have spent a penny.

[East Upper for Supper]

stop selling or best players for 20-40m per season and replacing them with inferior ones resulting in mug fans saying he does a brilliant job.

[Brentwood]

[Peter]

Continues to be consistently awful . http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/rubchin.gif

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I just refuse to go along with this excuse that he is shackled by the board.

I simply said above that he is given money to spend each summer which was in reply to PJ's comment that he got no help from the club, which itself is a laughable comment.

[Johnny1886]

I've a mate who supports Villa, I p*ssed myself when he told me Heskey was on something like £70k http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

[Brentwood]

I'm rather worried that you are basing this statement on an article that erroneously included costs that other clubs hadn't included

[Pokster]

we would be in an even stronger position as we would be more likely to be challenging for the title rather than clinging onto a top 4 place.

[Peter]

The club takes more from the sales than it gives to purchases.

Yu and i could argue long into the night about whether it is the boardor wenger that refuses to spend more, oblivious to the fact that neither of us actuallyknows.

Still, the fact remains. Net, we havent spent a penny on the team in 9 years.

[plastic james]

here is why it means nothing.

if i give you 500 million and buy every player in you 25 player squad.

then you need to replace them right? if you can get 25 better players for the same price i wouldnt have come to you.

so you either buy inferior players or younger players with potential. for less money, now you're in profit

so you buy younger players and develop them, as they develop you refuse to add quality to take that final step, the youngsters you have developed then see limits to your ambitious which is why the appeal from the richer clubs make sense.

you sell the,m then you go out and look for more potential to develop. can you see the cycle?

now looking back at your last 10 years, i see that how little net spending you made and i say thats why they cant compete.

you never build a squad, the players you create then wants to leave and you are in profit, its not a coincidence as you say, its a perfectly logical cycle.

the only way to break that cycle is adding quality to the stars you have created and convince them of your ambition. that needs money, if you're ambitious you spend that money with the idea that a successful team gets more money from commercial deals and thus you are not wasting but building.

imo that ambition is lacking from this owner.

[Red N White Army]

AW will be far more concerned at the chances drying up

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Peter]

Tactical is often his last resort for solutions.

I am hearing awful ,awful rumours of 3-5-2 http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/banghead.gif

[Peter]

Big IF, admittedly http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

A player must be sold every summer in line with the financial model.

I don't know if this is to try and remove or simply reduce the nett spend.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Round by round.

Still wouldn't argue for the sake of it. I am not that type of person.

[plastic james]

and not the manager of the team and thus an employee who has no share in the club, even though he is respected.

[Red N White Army]

[Peter]

http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

After 16 or whatever years why he would suddenly reverse one of his earlist tactical decisions.

[plastic james]

[redgunamo]

If you're a border collie fancier and you select and breed border collies, what you end up with is more border collies. They do not suddenly start turning into greyhounds http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/homer.gif

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Mere employee?

I doubt somehow that messers di Matteo or Mancini sit on on board meetings at their respective clubs for instance.

[Peter]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Peter]

Or does he simply focus on destroying them as a unit?

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

[Peter]

[plastic james]

as much as the previous owners or the current owners respect his achievements, they pay him to do a coach a football team, not to give them economic advice on their private assets.

and if he lost a big number of games and the fans were in rage they would sack him on the spot....like i said a Mere employee, even though respected

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

As his job will mainly involve work on the training pitches, as a coach.

You think after 6 months in the job he can convince AW to do this?

[redgunamo]

They're not exactly Steve Bould, are they?

[Pokster]

[Pokster]

somone sacked I would suggest he would get it

[Peter]

Just saying, its what i heard.

Obviously, its *******s

[plastic james]

as for the others, well i would be worried if he wouldn't be able to get rid of players he doesn't want.

then you have gazidis, it really doesnt matter if he stays or goes...he is simply a spokesman for the owner, i dont know why ppl focus on him really.

so who exactly is it you think wenger can sack and thus show his power?

the manager already is the second most powerful position at most english clubs, and the 3rd in ranks for european teams. but at the end of the day everybody but the owner/owners are employees....and the owners make strategic decisions, of their business, unless you're in mainland Europe where the football director is hired for his vision and he can sack and hire managers.

[Pokster]

[plastic james]

[Pokster]

[Free SL]

many of which are up for renewal soon, need to be improved.

The stadium project, and having to take what we could (with cash up front in many cases) has cost us in the long run. Hopefully our commercial team will prove their worth over the next couple of years.

[Alexism - Atheoist]

that this policy was a transitory one to pay down the stadium and that now we're emerging from the tunnel. Or we see the light anyways.

and 2) No Red and White Holdings. Ever.

We've agreed the club has to make improvements very quickly or risk being left out of the "Elite" should the revolution come. I think this summer we'll see if that is the case. See whether Wenger is allowed to spend the commercial money and the profits we get from any sales.