What are we going to do with Vermaelen? I think most Arsenal fans are now starting to agree with me

[Rich]

in that Koscienley and BFG are our two best center halves (though Kos could do with getting back to last season's form). Just because he goes rampaging forward and scores lots of goals for a defender, it doesn't actually mean he's a great defender.

The issue seems to be 'how do you drop the club captain', though. It would destroy his confidence.

[JJSB]

too. Obviously not many this season though.

Bit simplistic to think that people rate him only because he looks dangerous going forward.

[Rich]

And consistency is pretty important as a defender.

Mertesaker is proving himself to be one of the best in the league now he's settled a bit. He's class http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/cloudnine.gif

[C&B]

[Camp Freddie]

[Peter]

Season's form?

What are we going to do with him? Nothing. He will just have to improve, just like the rest of them.

[Rich]

get criticised despite doing very little wrong.

I'd rather see Vermaelen at left back while Gibbs is out. That at least alleviates the problem (as well as the Santos problem) for a while.

[IUFG]

[Rich]

like he did last season then he would achieve similar standards.

[Camp Freddie]

[SOLMAN(read by millions)]

[JJSB]

Took a while until Vidic replaced him as official captain, as he was the skipper anyway in Ferdinand's absence as the vice captain.

[C&B]

Schalke

[Peter]

And has scored more, by the way.

I dont think you should start with that kind of assumption if you are attempting to prove yourself right. Might be better to wait until you are actually proved right.

[JJSB]

but like so many other things in the team, what was being done well early season just a few weeka ago has just gone completely. It's bewildering what's going on.

[C&B]

[Camp Freddie]

[Rich]

It's just like my 'Chamakh is f**king ****e' argument when many on here were saying he's actually pretty good because he had scored 10 goals by January.

I do like TV5, though. That's the difference. I just don't think he's as good at the back as our other two. We're lucky to have the choice, especially when you consider what the alternative to those three is.

[C&B]

[Peter]

http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif only joking

The defensive problems are not just about individuals. You have little indidivusl errors and great big glaring issues. For example, vermaelen's error for the first goal yesterday- was he in the right position? Yes. Did he attempt to do the right thing? Yes. He just miskicked. No big deal. I get worried by a defender when he doesnt know he is supposed to be pickingup, when he plays people onside, when he doesnt call a tea mate who is out of position, or gets caught ball watching.

An individual miskick or treading on the ball doesnt keep me awake at night. Vermaelen is fine.

Worry about what is causing us to play like we are half asleep and dont want to wake up. Dont sweat the little stuff.

My advice, for what itis worth http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/bow.gif

[JJSB]

Can coaching and organisation eradicate those? Unlikely (and frustrating)

[Peter]

Cam from getting caught sleeping by a short corner. Only one man going out, and that was late.

Just before half time you get caught and concede a penalty from it. How the f**k is that then allowed to happen again in the second half? That is absolutely criminal.

And it isnt an individual mistake alone. The two players knew it was their job to be ready for it, so didi everybody else. Why were they not told to wake up and be in position?

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

Lessen? Yes. But my guess is our training sessions have been focused on the interplay around the box. Scoring goals is the top priority for Arsene.

[JJSB]

[redgunamo]

of the morning."

[Peter]

Problems are still there. They always will be to some extent.

As ever the real problem is simply tht we are playing ****.

[redgunamo]

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

It all depends who's doing the telling, I suppose.

[Peter]

[Peter]

If we are talking about arsenal, well, that is very different.

I doubt they are told much. If they are, they are not f**king listening.

[redgunamo]

regardless of results.

[redgunamo]

just sign players who play football the way you want them to.

[Peter]

Moving it quickly means we are playing well.

[Peter]

When you cant, you have to work with what you have. This involves a degree of 'coaching'

[redgunamo]

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

And who knows how long it'll take to make our attack play effective again. What would you do? Persist with trying? Or go back to the basic approach which probably would bring better chance of winning matches?

[Peter]

[Rich]

players don't try/don't care' nonsense that some fans spout.

[redgunamo]

We always do.

[redgunamo]

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

one ended up with more holes than the opponent. The numbers of thrusts thrown were roughly equal.

[Peter]

Than others.

They all try, they all care. It is more about ensuring the motivation is right and that they dont get downhearted when things go wrong. That is rather more complicated than effort or desire.

We look seriously short on sharpness at the moment. I dont know why. None of us do. But four games in it is getting really worrying.

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

I would try something different, something more direct and requiring less coordination. Just imagining.

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

Arsene wants his attacking play down the left.

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

to wait for us to make a mistake.

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

fast-tempo tippy-tappy, so to speak, may never work.

[Peter]

Flippant i know, but we cant really deal in specifics without knowing the problem.

[redgunamo]

[redgunamo]

[Peter]

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

"When you sign a player, they don't ask what you've won, they ask how you play."

Or whatever it was.

[redgunamo]

[Peter]

[Rich]

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

If the team over-perform, say constantly challenge the title with the 4th highest wage bill, you have the evidence that this new style indeed works. Otherwise, it'd go back to your theory, you can play only as well as the players you have.

[redgunamo]

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

Cecs left, he had to. Now the team can't score, he need to do it again. His own style is being taught to the u-18 team, so you need not worry about his legacy.

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

He's like a run-down cassette recorder, coarse but still does replay.

[redgunamo]

Hounds always look great in training.

[wagoaw (out only, no in)]

but even the Special One had to in order to win things and earn his humongous wage. Arsene were almost radical in persisting on his beliefs at times but I believe right now it's time to be practical. Easier said I know.

[Peter]

Not quite sure where i am going with this one

[redgunamo]

Wenger players.

[redgunamo]

[Peter]

[Peter]

[redgunamo]

It's all about good breeding.

[redgunamo]

[Chief Arrowhead]

quick, shifty, able to stop on a dime and change directions. The really good ones have a sense as to where their opponent is going even before the opponent does.

[Peter]

Please tell me we dont judge the hare by the hound.

[redgunamo]

A good hare knows that if he doesn't run, a good hound can't chase and kill it.

[Peter]

As for what makes a good left back, Its a good right back with a left foot.

[redgunamo]

It's what we call "environmental genetics".

[Peter]

Why dont you just leave the f**king hares alone? What did they do to you?

[redgunamo]

I like coursing.

[Peter]

Without you and your salivating pack of monsters nipping at their heels.

Play golf, bake bread, write an opera. Let the world be.

[redgunamo]

I've been coursing here for almost twenty years; with my hunting rifle I could wipe them out within three weeks.

[Peter]

Are you really that good? http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/rubchin.gif

[redgunamo]