Jason Kunty on the radio "England didnt even goto the WC in 82" whilst slagging off the fact

[David Pleat AHADF (Royal Welsher and monkey lover)]

England were rubbish in the 80's. Do yo think someone ought to tell him England were the only unbeaten team in the entire tournament in 82 and were a tad unlucky in 86?. I can't believe 1 draw away against an OK team and talk ****e see it as a disaster and now they'll have a ziliion phone ins about where its all gone wrong.

[JJSB]

drawing with Ukraine at home, unconvincing against San Marino, now a draw in another winnable game.

Bit lucky there aren't any really decent teams in this group.

[All Guns Blazing]

[Peter]

Limited and the mjor nations always beat us.

Rather than constantly bemoaning our luck or individual managers and players it might ge more sendible to just accept that maybe our players are simply good and nothing more. Good, but not that good.

Getting a bit sick of hearing how jack is going to coe back and transform england. He f**king isnt.

[Rich]

well.

Is Ashley Young injured?

[All Guns Blazing]

[Peter]

To want insis that he is immediately great.

The last england player with the talent to make me leap out of a seat was gascoigne. I cant remember one since.

[Rich]

He's the one that makes United tick. Chamberlain looks like he'll have that extra bit of quality to set him apart from the rest too. And we know what Wilshere can do already. Let's just hope injury hasn't set him back too far.

[JJSB]

And diabolical opponents in the case of San Marino.

It seems to be a creativity problem mainly from the type of midfielders available.

In fairness, if Jack does come back well, he will offer something a bit different (enough to break down the sort of opponents in our group, if not the top level teams anyway)

[JJSB]

Has he ever really come close to that level of impact for England since then?

[Rich]

Persie by the fact he drops so deep (even to just in front of the defense) and dictates play.

I'm not trying to be controversial when I say that I think he is the best and most dynamic player in the Premier League. Only Yaya Toure potentially comes close. His passing is like Scholes', he runs like a dog, can go past players on a whim and has a fearsome shot.

[All Guns Blazing]

Not this season.

That's why old man ginger is getting so many games.

[Rich]

[JJSB]

Think there was even talk of him making a belated comeback to the national team too

[All Guns Blazing]

Even Vieira used to wax lyrical about him.

[JJSB]

He was sensational in 2004. And I'm talking about specifically performances for England, not whether overall he's a better player now then back then. He's mainly disappointed in every tournament since Euro 2004 anyway.

[Rich]

recognised now as being one of the most potentially dangerous players on the planet, so I imagine defences and midfields take him a bit more seriously these days.

[Rich]

[JJSB]

Also complicated by Gerrard and Lampard being around.

Probably why he ended up retiring very early from International football.

[Rich]

World Cup 2020 champions http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/cloudnine.gif

I will carry you aloft down The Mall whilst I chant your name at the top of my voice*

* - I actually hope I'll have a debenture at Lord's by then and shall be watching the test.

[JJSB]

and Paul Scholes would be 45 by then anyway, so pretty much useless.

[All Guns Blazing]

Scholes reading of the game is almost Bergkamp-like. Rooney doesn't have a fraction of his footballing brain. With him its all instinct and physical prowess. Rooney was tried in the role Scholes initially vacated btw - but red nose gave that up pretty sharpish.

I do rate Rooney highly (who wouldn't) but he will burn out in his early 30's. The warning signs are already there as it is.

[Rich]

[Classic Jorge]

I'd imagine old man giggles is already fitter than him

[JJSB]

how foolish he made defenders like Thuram look, all the same.