Both those clubs have reason to be more sanguine about their future in that competition, should they qualify, than we do though. The European Cup has been most kind to Liverpool down the years and Manchester City are now armed with the "best manager in the world" who in turn will be armed with all the money in the world and perhaps also Lionel Messi too. Neither outfit will be looking at the thing as merely a money-making jaunt or as a prelude to a tonking from Bayern München in the knockout rounds.
"Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.
"But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."