June 2015: Parliament votes for EU referendum

[Peter]

"Brexit means Brexit" means exactly what every single key player in the leave campaign (not to mention Cameron, Osborne and many others on the remain side) stated it meant pre-referendum and what they continue to state it means today

The precise way in which we extricate ourselves from the EU institutions that we must leave for Brexit to mean Brexit was not on the ballot paper and neither you nor anyone else would seriously suggest it should have been.

No, it is a politician's answer designed to do nothing but avoid the question.

It is not a question of precise extrication, it is a question of fundamentals- the single market, freedom of movement, trade agreements. And I did point out, before the referendum, that it was a little unfair that leavers were being asked to take a leap in the dark- a tiny bit of detail would have made for a more balanced debate. In the end it didn’t matter and people took the gamble anyway.

Either way…. You can make all the excuses you like. The fact is that the statement Brexit means Brexit says precisely nothing and is precisely designed to do so. It is an answer to a question that wants to know what Brexit means- at this stage, the government still don’t really have a clue. So how can it possibly mean anything?

[World's End Stella]

No, it is a politician's answer designed to do nothing but avoid the question.

It is not a question of precise extrication, it is a question of fundamentals- the single market, freedom of movement, trade agreements. And I did point out, before the referendum, that it was a little unfair that leavers were being asked to take a leap in the dark- a tiny bit of detail would have made for a more balanced debate. In the end it didn’t matter and people took the gamble anyway.

Either way…. You can make all the excuses you like. The fact is that the statement Brexit means Brexit says precisely nothing and is precisely designed to do so. It is an answer to a question that wants to know what Brexit means- at this stage, the government still don’t really have a clue. So how can it possibly mean anything?

Thank you, Peter. I started to provide pretty much that explanation to dear Monty and then figured it was a waste of my time.

Nice to see you aren't that busy.

[Peter]

Thank you, Peter. I started to provide pretty much that explanation to dear Monty and then figured it was a waste of my time.

Nice to see you aren't that busy.

Wonderful goal from the lad Ramsey on Friday. Always liked him

[World's End Stella]

Wonderful goal from the lad Ramsey on Friday. Always liked him

Shocking defending, ball from Xhaka was in the air for ages and still no one cut it out. Nice finish all the same. Now if only he could learn how to play in midfield.

[Monty92]

No, it is a politician's answer designed to do nothing but avoid the question.

It is not a question of precise extrication, it is a question of fundamentals- the single market, freedom of movement, trade agreements. And I did point out, before the referendum, that it was a little unfair that leavers were being asked to take a leap in the dark- a tiny bit of detail would have made for a more balanced debate. In the end it didn’t matter and people took the gamble anyway.

Either way…. You can make all the excuses you like. The fact is that the statement Brexit means Brexit says precisely nothing and is precisely designed to do so. It is an answer to a question that wants to know what Brexit means- at this stage, the government still don’t really have a clue. So how can it possibly mean anything?

Brexit means and always meant leaving the single market, customs union and ECJ and ending freedom of movement. And, of course, negotiating the best trade deal possible with the EU.

What more did you want?

[Peter]

Brexit means and always meant leaving the single market, customs union and ECJ and ending freedom of movement. And, of course, negotiating the best trade deal possible with the EU.

What more did you want?

Right, yet whenever asked that, specifically, she says 'Brexit means Brexit'. What does that tell you?

Politicians will always give you a straight answer if they can because they know full well they are hardly ever able to do so. Whenever they avoid answering there is a reason.

[World's End Stella]

Brexit means and always meant leaving the single market, customs union and ECJ and ending freedom of movement. And, of course, negotiating the best trade deal possible with the EU.

What more did you want?

So leaving the EU and remaining in the EEA is not Brexit then? Despite the leaving the EU bit? And this was absolutely clear to everyone who voted leave, was it?

As Peter said, no one was looking for all the details but something like 'we will leave the single market, customs union and have complete control of our borders with no qualifications' wouldn't have been that difficult to communicate and voting for it without any supporting proposal of any kind baffles me. Unless, like Burney, you voted Leave for ideological reasons and let the consequences be damned.

[Ash]

No, it is a politician's answer designed to do nothing but avoid the question.

It is not a question of precise extrication, it is a question of fundamentals- the single market, freedom of movement, trade agreements. And I did point out, before the referendum, that it was a little unfair that leavers were being asked to take a leap in the dark- a tiny bit of detail would have made for a more balanced debate. In the end it didn’t matter and people took the gamble anyway.

Either way…. You can make all the excuses you like. The fact is that the statement Brexit means Brexit says precisely nothing and is precisely designed to do so. It is an answer to a question that wants to know what Brexit means- at this stage, the government still don’t really have a clue. So how can it possibly mean anything?

As Monty said, Brexit means leaving the European institutions that comprise the EU. Pro-remain politicians (which is most of them) and pro-remain media (which is most of it) are muddying the water by pretending that it might mean something else (fakebrexit, basically), which encourages others to follow their lead.

As to the difficulties and complexities of this, well yes, it is both of those things but then radical political change like revolution and extraction from supranational entities is never easy. The difficulty of a task should not preclude the option of persuing it even if it is a challenging obstacle. Indeed, the 'technical' argument against attempting it which you are making is cut from the very cloth of the unassailable EU technocracy, where government is seen as a machine that humble voters can never attempt to understand, and can only be operated by the high priests of the machinery who should not be accountable to the odious masses (which the current, left-of-centre ruling class despise as much as their right-wing predecessors).

Welcome to the machine!

[Pat Vegas]

This thread sucks it's too much to follow.

[Ash]

This thread sucks it's too much to follow.

Thanks.