Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Right, I get that. My point was more that there seems to be a general assumption that they are capable of better were it not for Wenger and his general silliness. What if this is actually the summit of what they are capable of and without Wenger we are useless?

I haven't seen enough of Mustafi or Xhaka but what I have seen varies from great to terrible. Do you think they are any good?
More sensibly put. And yes both are excellent footballers. Mustafi made an immediate difference when he came in and even if he struggling bit for form now, I think most people recognise his quality. As for Xhaka, we clearly haven't seen the best of him - read the article I posted the other day and the difference he made to Monchengladbach team - we have quite a talent there