Just in case anyone was on the fence about whether vegans are insane...

[Burney]

I get increasingly irritated as to why it has to be an ideology, why one's diet cannot simply be one's diet. I said as much in a vegan cafe and got glared at by someone who I could best describe as a hippy ****.

In other words, is it ok if I just dont eat meat, fish and dairy? Do I have to also buy the T shirts, wear the healing crystals, label the rest of the world as murderers and believe that seeds constitute lunch?

Does my tea have to be green, or blue, or red, or stink of ****? Cant it just be murky brown?

Veganism would be great if it werent for the ****ing vegans

Exactly so. I suspect that, in earlier times, these people would have been puritans, inquisitors and flagellants. If they lived in the Middle East, they'd all be in ISIS. For a lot of them, it's about holier-than-thou purity more than it's about the cuddly-wuddly ickle animals.

[Burney]

she sounds like a nightmare- apart from the arse.

Yeah. I had her down as Australian as well. Possibly a yoga instructor. Picked up all the mumbo-jumbo while backpacking round India.

[Pokster]

Yeah. I had her down as Australian as well. Possibly a yoga instructor. Picked up all the mumbo-jumbo while backpacking round India.

You're touching yourself now aren't you.... dirty boy b

[Peter]

I think that's the point, though. There is only one valid reason to not eat meat, because you don't like the taste.

As soon as it becomes more than that it becomes an ideology of some kind. And at that point it becomes irritating and pathetic and, more importantly, intellectually indefensible.

Nonsense. There is nothing remotely indefensible, intellectually or otherwise, about not wanting to eat meat. About a third of the world manage to do it without drivelling on about it.

It is people who turn it into an ideology and the main reason for this is to establish a moral superiority to make up for the fact that they can no longer have a bacon sandwich.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked'dont you feel better than everybodyelse' by a vegan. They seriously, seriously hate my answer

[Burney]

I think that's the point, though. There is only one valid reason to not eat meat, because you don't like the taste.

As soon as it becomes more than that it becomes an ideology of some kind. And at that point it becomes irritating and pathetic and, more importantly, intellectually indefensible.

Well quite. It's impossible to justify prioritising the suffering of animals while living a modern life that invariably involves involvement in the suffering of millions of our fellow human beings. If you are using an iPhone to tweet about the iniquities of the dairy industry, you are effectively admitting that you care more about the suffering of cows than you do about the suffering of the untold numbers of humans horribly exploited to facilitate your moral grandstanding. That to me is an ethically indefensible (indeed almost sociopathic) position and the selectivity of conscience involved in it requires a level of cognitive dissonance I find intellectually repugnant.

Everyone's hands are dirty, I'm afraid. Suffering is the sine qua non of existence. We need to learn to accept that we make moral choices all the time - consciously or unconsciously - to accept the suffering of others as a price worth paying for our pleasure. In that context, getting het up about animals is simply ridiculous.

[Sir C]

Well quite. It's impossible to justify prioritising the suffering of animals while living a modern life that invariably involves involvement in the suffering of millions of our fellow human beings. If you are using an iPhone to tweet about the iniquities of the dairy industry, you are effectively admitting that you care more about the suffering of cows than you do about the suffering of untold numbers of humans horribly exploited to facilitate your moral grandstanding. That to me is an ethically indefensible (indeed almost sociopathic) position and the selectivity of conscience involved in it requires a level of cognitive dissonance I find intellectually repugnant.

Animals are innocent. People, not so much.

Fúck people.

On the other hand, animals taste so good.

[Burney]

Animals are innocent. People, not so much.

Fúck people.

On the other hand, animals taste so good.

You need to get away from this notion of innocence. It is a meaningless concept in moral or ethical terms. Animals are neither innocent nor guilty. They simply are.

Is a mosquito innocent or guilty when it's giving you malaria? When rats spread the Black Death were they guilty? No. They're just doing their mosquito and rat thing just as we are doing our human thing.

[World's End Stella]

Nonsense. There is nothing remotely indefensible, intellectually or otherwise, about not wanting to eat meat. About a third of the world manage to do it without drivelling on about it.

It is people who turn it into an ideology and the main reason for this is to establish a moral superiority to make up for the fact that they can no longer have a bacon sandwich.

I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked'dont you feel better than everybodyelse' by a vegan. They seriously, seriously hate my answer

I insist you read my posts properly before you reply, Peter.

I specifically said that not eating meat was intellectually indefensible only once it became an ideology.

[Sir C]

You need to get away from this notion of innocence. It is a meaningless concept in moral or ethical terms. Animals are neither innocent nor guilty. They simply are.

Is a mosquito innocent or guilty when it's giving you malaria? When rats spread the Black Death were they guilty? No. They're just doing their mosquito and rat thing just as we are doing our human thing.

Nonsense. We are doing our human thing from a position of awareness. We have knowledge of the consequences and morality of our actions. The mosquito does not.

People choose to be fundamentally awful. Corbyn chooses to support the IRA or whichever oppressive dictator takes his fancy on the day. Owen Jones chooses to be a repulsive little gimp and consciously tries to use his position to encourage turning this country into a socialist hellhole, even though he knows the effect this will have on his fellow citizens. peter chooses to support these monsters. sw chooses to spunk his wages on Guinness, beat his children and píss in his wife's wardrobe.

All conscious choices. All guilty.

[World's End Stella]

Nonsense. We are doing our human thing from a position of awareness. We have knowledge of the consequences and morality of our actions. The mosquito does not.

People choose to be fundamentally awful. Corbyn chooses to support the IRA or whichever oppressive dictator takes his fancy on the day. Owen Jones chooses to be a repulsive little gimp and consciously tries to use his position to encourage turning this country into a socialist hellhole, even though he knows the effect this will have on his fellow citizens. peter chooses to support these monsters. sw chooses to spunk his wages on Guinness, beat his children and píss in his wife's wardrobe.

All conscious choices. All guilty.

And you chose to house that feline who rips apart your Christmas decorations. It is simply doing what nature tells it to.

You and V are the guilty ones, I'm afraid.