Labour's attempts to differentiate their position on Brexit and specifically

[Peter]

[QUOTE=Monty92;4166833]

There was an organisation to speak for it - they are called the Remain side and comprised the entire UK and much of the global political establishment. Everyone knew what it meant for FOM and everyone knew what it meant for single market membership because everyone on both sides made this explicitly clear. The difference was that the Remain side pitched these consequences as incentives to stay (Project Fear) whereas the leave side did the opposite.

Firstly, I thought it was obvious that I was saying there was no organisation to speak for the leave side. Exemplified by the fact that they walked away from the reference to NHS spending the morning after the vote and everybody claimed it was everybody else's idea to say it.

Secondly, no, everybody did NOT know what the consequences were. Most of the people voting have no idea what free movement means or what the single market is. As obvious as it may seem to you there are millions of people who barely know what the EU is, and the belief that it is widely understood by all pitches your ignorance alongside theirs, only with far less excuse.

[Monty92]

[QUOTE=Peter;4166847]

Firstly, I thought it was obvious that I was saying there was no organisation to speak for the leave side. Exemplified by the fact that they walked away from the reference to NHS spending the morning after the vote and everybody claimed it was everybody else's idea to say it.

Secondly, no, everybody did NOT know what the consequences were. Most of the people voting have no idea what free movement means or what the single market is. As obvious as it may seem to you there are millions of people who barely know what the EU is, and the belief that it is widely understood by all pitches your ignorance alongside theirs, only with far less excuse.

But this information was made available to them in perfectly accessible ways and by both sides. That they chose to vote in ignorance was their own choice.

[Sir C]

[QUOTE=Monty92;4166848]

But this information was made available to them in perfectly accessible ways and by both sides. That they chose to vote in ignorance was their own choice.

The majority of the electorate is as thick as mince 40% of the fúckers just voted for Corbyn, for fúck's sake. You couldn't educate them in less than 3 or 4 generations.

[Ash]

The majority of the electorate is as thick as mince 40% of the fúckers just voted for Corbyn, for fúck's sake. You couldn't educate them in less than 3 or 4 generations.

Thanks for that

[Sir C]

Thanks for that

I know you're not thick, a. Indeed, you know that I know that you're not thick

Have you listened to the average conversation on a train or bus recently? Ever taken a cab? The lumpen proletariat are, without doubt, as cows in a field, lowing only for their X Factor and cheap booze.

[Ash]

Have you listened to the average conversation on a train or bus recently?.

Yes. Usually overly-loud middle class types braying about their next travelling expedition and extolling the virtue of cheap labour for the building works on their property portfolios.

[Peter]

Yes. Usually overly-loud middle class types braying about their next travelling expedition and extolling the virtue of cheap labour for the building works on their property portfolios.

Nicely put

[Peter]

[QUOTE=Monty92;4166848]

But this information was made available to them in perfectly accessible ways and by both sides. That they chose to vote in ignorance was their own choice.

Giving information doesn't help people understand something that is totally alien to them. Everybody is entitled to vote however they wish. The original point wasn't about overcoming ignorance, it was about asking a clearer question to avoid the sort of nonsense we are hearing now about what people voted for.

[Ash]

But this information was made available to them in perfectly accessible ways and by both sides. That they chose tovote in ignorance was their own choice.

Much is made of 'voting in ignorance'. Very often by those who didn't get the result they wanted, but more generally by those who dislike democracy generally, and would rather things were run exclusively by people like themselves and for their own interests.

[Monty92]

Much is made of 'voting in ignorance'. Very often by those who didn't get the result they wanted, but more generally by those who dislike democracy generally, and would rather things were run exclusively by people like themselves and for their own interests.

I think you're taking a rather uncontroversial belief - that most people are thick - and using it to push your line about the elite industrial complex. While your position on elitism is entirely valid, I think you need to be careful not to venture into straw man territory.

After all, both Charlie and I are far from Remainers.