Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
If we don't like our executive we can vote it out. If you want to see how undemocratic the Commission is, see how they have ignored or overturned numerous referendums around Europe when people voted the 'wrong' way. France, Netherlands, Greece and Ireland have all had popular votes overturned or made to vote again until they get it right. Sound familiar?

Italy wasn't allowed to set its own Keynesian budget after the people had voted for a left-right coalition opposed to austerity policies.
It's not fair to conflate the Eurozone with the EU.

For all the idiocy of a monetary union without a fiscal union, and the hypocrisy of allowing Fr and Ger to break the budget limit but not Italy, they chose to be in the EZ and have to obey the rules. They can leave if they don't like it. And we all know why they won't.

That doesn't apply to us as EU but non EZ members.

Why it's wrong for the EU to make people vote again 'till they get it right, but fine for May to keep asking Parl to do likewise, I've no idea.

But the point is that on every occassion that EU states voted again, the proposition was supported by their democratically elected national govts, and often the opposition too.

The trouble stems from the fact that most people don't take Europe seriously enough and will therefore use an EU vote to stick two fingers up to the establishment. {Remember when the Greens won 15% here in the late '80s?}

So you often had a case of the public rejecting the vote of a way of sending a message o their rulers (much like Brexit was a protest against austerity andimmigration).

The govt of whichever country would say "Ok, we get it. But look, this deal really is in all our interests. That's why most main parties in most main countries support it. So look, we'll listen to you about the domestic issues that prompted your protest vote but please vote again, cos we don't want to appear the country holding everyone back, do we?"

I accept it's a horrible look. And I wish it hadn't happened as the biggest argument against the 2nd vote I desire is that it looks like the EU telling us to keep voting 'till we get it right. {A la May.}

The EU is far from perfect and maybe Brexit and the coming MEP votes might wake them up a bit. But I would still rather be in the club helping reform it than stuck in an economically destructive limbo with no unilateral escape mechanism, ending up a rule taker with no say in their making.

With the rebate and opt-outs we had the best of both worlds.