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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I've always been better at this stuff than you guys
    What you are better at, my friend, is elevating judgement, instinct and belief in your own superiority over logic, reason, compassion and humanity.

    Not that the latter are particularly relevant here. I just put them in to improve the rhythm and rhetoric of the sentence.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

    Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

    The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

    I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

    One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

    What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism.
    If you're including me, as I suspect you are, as someone who 'hates England' you are being deliberately mendacious and I am due an apology.

    I'll wait.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

    Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

    The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

    I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

    One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

    What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism.
    For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

    I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously pretty contemptible, but it's at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

    Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

    I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity
    Last edited by Monty92; 07-12-2018 at 11:59 AM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

    Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

    The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

    I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

    One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

    What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism.
    Great post, Ash.

    And I think the correlation is more to misanthropy than it is to right wing views. As I mentioned, I think someone would need to be socially dysfunctional on some level to not be able to put their hatred of Spurs players to the side and enjoy this England team.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

    I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously a pretty contemptible position to take, but it's one that is at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

    Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

    I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity
    The point that you continue to miss - or at least fail to address - is that anyone who 'hates' a person they have never met in their lives and know virtually nothing about, because of the football club they play for is socially dysfunctional, thick, immature or some combination of all three.

    I only 'hate' that Harry Kane makes Spurs a better team, I don't 'hate' Harry Kane. So when he plays for England I have no issue with him at all.

    BTW, I think you're all three.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

    I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously a pretty contemptible position to take, but it's one that is at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

    Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

    I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity
    Intellectual consistency and integrity you ****ing retard

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    If you're including me, as I suspect you are, as someone who 'hates England' you are being deliberately mendacious and I am due an apology.

    I'll wait.
    Nah c. He's got you, berni and your little pet goat monty to a T

    Word Ash!

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    If you're including me, as I suspect you are, as someone who 'hates England' you are being deliberately mendacious and I am due an apology.

    I'll wait.

    Of course! I'm terribly sorry for the misunderstanding. Please forgive me for not specifying unambiguously that it was the England football team I was referring to, and not the country itself.

    Further, if my memory has failed me and you were not actually one of those calling for the failure of the football team than I apologise for that as well.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Of course! I'm terribly sorry for the misunderstanding. Please forgive me for not specifying unambiguously that it was the England football team I was referring to, and not the country itself.

    Further, if my memory has failed me and you were not actually one of those calling for the failure of the football team than I apologise for that as well.
    Both apologies graciously offered and accepted. Thank you.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by WES View Post
    The point that you continue to miss - or at least fail to address - is that anyone who 'hates' a person they have never met in their lives and know virtually nothing about, because of the football club they play for is socially dysfunctional, thick, immature or some combination of all three.

    I only 'hate' that Harry Kane makes Spurs a better team, I don't 'hate' Harry Kane. So when he plays for England I have no issue with him at all.

    BTW, I think you're all three.
    Oh I don't really hate them. The notion of genuinely hating someone because of the football team they happen to play for is patently absurd on any rational level.

    If I did, your assessment of me would be grossly understated.

    Bear in mind I've had to interview a lot of these guys over the years and have never struggled to sublimate how I feel about them on a match day.

    I never said any of this was rational

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