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Thread: In response to #Metoo, this year's Geneva Motor Show has replaced its "booth babes"

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Which just makes the questions to be who/what sets the agenda that drives the culture? Commerce, fashion, or powerful interest groups? You think commerce, I'm not so sure because academia has been very instrumental.

    Anyway. Do you actually believe it or not? Their position which you have been sort-of defending, at least with some of their vocabulary.
    Academia has been powerful in pushing post-modernist ideas, some of which complement the current women's movement, but equally some of which also come into direct conflict with it.

    Do I believe what? All I really believe that puts me on "their" side is that a lot of men should treat women better than they do. Of course, a lot of women should also treat men better than they do, and a lot of women should treat other women better than they do.

    But then we are into whataboutery territory, at which point you insist on silencing me

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Which just makes the questions to be who/what sets the agenda that drives the culture? Commerce, fashion, or powerful interest groups? You think commerce, I'm not so sure because academia has been very instrumental.

    Anyway. Do you actually believe it or not? Their position which you have been sort-of defending, at least with some of their vocabulary.
    The wholesale infiltration of education and academia by the identity politics-driven left have been hugely successful. You now have a generation or two of young adults in the world who are genuinely shocked and appalled that people exist who are prepared to even question certain orthodoxies. One oughtn't be surprised by this. They have been thoroughly brainwashed with this crap since age 5, with the BBC, etc helping to hammer home the 'right' messages on gender, race, social justice and the environment. The effect of this has been that, the 'better' educated these people are, the less prone they are to original or independent thought on these issues. This is why hope now lies with the proles.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    The wholesale infiltration of education and academia by the identity politics-driven left have been hugely successful. You now have a generation or two of young adults in the world who are genuinely shocked and appalled that people exist who are prepared to even question certain orthodoxies. One oughtn't be surprised by this. They have been thoroughly brainwashed with this crap since age 5, with the BBC, etc helping to hammer home the 'right' messages on gender, race, social justice and the environment. The effect of this has been that, the 'better' educated these people are, the less prone they are to original or independent thought on these issues. This is why hope now lies with the proles.
    And this presumably started just after you were very well educated, making you immune?

  4. #34
    I like your final point, but I can’t help recalling how you used to speak about the proles pre-brexit.

    You seemed quite enamoured of the fact that democracy was a sham designed to make thick people feel like their opinions mattered while actually ignoring them.

    That’s what you used to say, anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    The wholesale infiltration of education and academia by the identity politics-driven left have been hugely successful. You now have a generation or two of young adults in the world who are genuinely shocked and appalled that people exist who are prepared to even question certain orthodoxies. One oughtn't be surprised by this. They have been thoroughly brainwashed with this crap since age 5, with the BBC, etc helping to hammer home the 'right' messages on gender, race, social justice and the environment. The effect of this has been that, the 'better' educated these people are, the less prone they are to original or independent thought on these issues. This is why hope now lies with the proles.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Academia has been powerful in pushing post-modernist ideas, some of which complement the current women's movement, but equally some of which also come into direct conflict with it.

    Do I believe what? All I really believe that puts me on "their" side is that a lot of men should treat women better than they do. Of course, a lot of women should also treat men better than they do, and a lot of women should treat other women better than they do.

    But then we are into whataboutery territory, at which point you insist on silencing me
    Post-modernism is simply a catch-all term for the widespread inculcation of moral and qualitative relativism as credos. This has served to destroy several generations' capacity for critical or cultural appraisal, meaning they'll accept virtually anything because they lack the certitude to denounce it.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Academia has been powerful in pushing post-modernist ideas, some of which complement the current women's movement, but equally some of which also come into direct conflict with it.

    Do I believe what? All I really believe that puts me on "their" side is that a lot of men should treat women better than they do. Of course, a lot of women should also treat men better than they do, and a lot of women should treat other women better than they do.

    But then we are into whataboutery territory, at which point you insist on silencing me
    Only one part of academia, and even then not wholesale. People studying engineering, accounting, medicine, optometry, geology, physics, biomedical science, law, architecture, computing, graphic design, podiatry, audiology- they tend to be fairly immune from the worst excesses of what B refers to as the identity politics-driven left.

    What I see every day is a generation of students desperate to find something to be angry about, stripped of their birthright of outrage and feeling particularly inferior to their predecessors who fought civil rights, clause 28, burned their bras and banned the bomb.

    Its a natural drive for the young generation to want to fight for change. Academia, in the social sciences and humanities, does a lot of pandering to this and of course modern academics feel the constant need to challenge something.

    I dont really find any of this sinister. Just pathetic. It is potentially damaging though....

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I like your final point, but I can’t help recalling how you used to speak about the proles pre-brexit.

    You seemed quite enamoured of the fact that democracy was a sham designed to make thick people feel like their opinions mattered while actually ignoring them.

    That’s what you used to say, anyway.
    I agree. And I regret my glibness. What I had perhaps underestimated until Brexit was the extent of the brainwashing. I really didn't grasp how intellectually unfit so much of the more educated classes had been allowed to become. I mean we now have younger generations who regard living under democratic government as much less important than do their parents and grandparents. I find that genuinely shocking. How in God's name can that have been allowed to happen?

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    I agree. And I regret my glibness. What I had perhaps underestimated until Brexit was the extent of the brainwashing. I really didn't grasp how intellectually unfit so much of the more educated classes had been allowed to become. I mean we now have younger generations who regard living under democratic government as much less important than do their parents and grandparents. I find that genuinely shocking. How in God's name can that have been allowed to happen?
    Is that how you interpret the Brexit vote? That young people dont care about democracy as much as their parents?

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Only one part of academia, and even then not wholesale. People studying engineering, accounting, medicine, optometry, geology, physics, biomedical science, law, architecture, computing, graphic design, podiatry, audiology- they tend to be fairly immune from the worst excesses of what B refers to as the identity politics-driven left.

    What I see every day is a generation of students desperate to find something to be angry about, stripped of their birthright of outrage and feeling particularly inferior to their predecessors who fought civil rights, clause 28, burned their bras and banned the bomb.

    Its a natural drive for the young generation to want to fight for change. Academia, in the social sciences and humanities, does a lot of pandering to this and of course modern academics feel the constant need to challenge something.

    I dont really find any of this sinister. Just pathetic. It is potentially damaging though....
    But they aren't fighting for change or freedom. They're fighting for rigid intellectual orthodoxy and the silencing of those who disagree.

    And the hard sciences are not immune to this stuff. We're already seeing scientific studies of certain hot potatoes (transgenderism and climate science for instance) being denied funding for fear they'll come to the 'wrong' conclusions. A couple of years back, we saw a man who had been intimately involved in the Rosetta space programme forced to make a grovelling, tearful apology on television because he had dared to wear a shirt with bare ladies on it. Nobody is safe from this stuff.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    It is potentially damaging though....
    No, everyone eventually grows up. Or dies childless, so no real harm done.
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

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