There are lot of people this morning saying that one of Jamie Bulger's killers being

[Burney]

I don't know anything about Bulger's parents, other than the fact that his mum was distracted when he got snatched, which does seem rather unforgivable. I mean, you can sometimes lose track of the movements of a 4 or 5-year-old, but a two-year-old? Nah, you *always* have one eye on a two-year-old when out in public.

Exactly. I remember kids at that age and the idea that you could lose track of them for more than a few seconds without going into panic mode seems unthinkable to me.

However, I'm sure her conscience has punished the poor woman enough for the last 24 years, so I'm not going to kick her.

[Monty92]

Exactly. I remember kids at that age and the idea that you could lose track of them for more than a few seconds without going into panic mode seems unthinkable to me.

However, I'm sure her conscience has punished the poor woman enough for the last 24 years, so I'm not going to kick her.

On a related note, people generally speaking are weird when it comes to ethics. If someone moderately drink drives and gets away with it, they'll be considered little more than naughty scamps. yet if someone moderately drink drives and kills a kid, the opprobrium goes through the roof. Why? The 'crimes' were identical on a moral level.

[Burney]

On a related note, people generally speaking are weird when it comes to ethics. If someone moderately drink drives and gets away with it, they'll be considered little more than naughty scamps. yet if someone moderately drink drives and kills a kid, the opprobrium goes through the roof. Why? The 'crimes' were identical on a moral level.

Yes, I've always felt dubious about the principle of scaling punishment on the basis of its consequences. It's always seemed to punish bad luck to an unfair degree. I remember that chap who fell asleep at the wheel a few years ago and somehow managed to cause the Selby train crash. He got five years. If he'd given into sleep a few minutes earlier, there's every chance he might just have veered onto the hard shoulder and gone up the bank. Result? A few points on his licence, maybe. The disparity between those punishments for essentially the same offence has always seemed arbitrary and unfair to me.

[Monty92]

Yes, I've always felt dubious about the principle of scaling punishment on the basis of its consequences. It's always seemed to punish bad luck to an unfair degree. I remember that chap who fell asleep at the wheel a few years ago and somehow managed to cause the Selby train crash. He got five years. If he'd given into sleep a few minutes earlier, there's every chance he might just have veered onto the hard shoulder and gone up the bank. Result? A few points on his licence, maybe. The disparity between those punishments for essentially the same offence has always seemed arbitrary and unfair to me.

So do you think the chap should have got nothing more than a few points on his license, or that people who crash onto the hard shoulder but kill no-one should be treated as harshly as if they'd caused a train crash?

That's where it gets tricky, huh?

[Burney]

So do you think the chap should have got nothing more than a few points on his license, or that people who crash onto the hard shoulder but kill no-one should be treated as harshly as if they'd caused a train crash?

That's where it gets tricky, huh?

Sure, but it's a tacit acknowledgement that the state sees it as its duty to exact a blood price from perpetrators. That seems to me to undermine the whole notion of equality under the law.

[Monty92]

Sure, but it's a tacit acknowledgement that the state sees it as its duty to exact a blood price from perpetrators. That seems to me to undermine the whole notion of equality under the law.

So you think the bloke who caused the train crash should have just got points on his license.

I'm not disagreeing. I think there's a strong argument for.

Then again, I don't believe in free will.

[Burney]

So you think the bloke who caused the train crash should have just got points on his license.

I'm not disagreeing. I think there's a strong argument for.

Then again, I don't believe in free will.

Oh, I think advances of our understanding of brain chemistry and the extent to which we are genetically pre-determined to be a certain way is going to make an absolute mess of notions or law, crime and punishment in years to come. After all, how do we fairly punish someone who is born with abnormal levels of aggression for being abnormally aggressive?

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

Sure, but it's a tacit acknowledgement that the state sees it as its duty to exact a blood price from perpetrators. That seems to me to undermine the whole notion of equality under the law.

Society's response to needless loss of life should always be draconian. I see hundreds of people yapping into their mobiles while driving, even when negotiating roundabouts for God's sake. When they career into pedestrians and kill them then they should be treated harshly if only to signal to others that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

[Peter]

Society's response to needless loss of life should always be draconian. I see hundreds of people yapping into their mobiles while driving, even when negotiating roundabouts for God's sake. When they career into pedestrians and kill them then they should be treated harshly if only to signal to others that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

As long as they signalled at the roundabout I think we can forgive them the odd phone call.

[Burney]

Society's response to needless loss of life should always be draconian. I see hundreds of people yapping into their mobiles while driving, even when negotiating roundabouts for God's sake. When they career into pedestrians and kill them then they should be treated harshly if only to signal to others that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

But the fact that you see hundreds of people doing it is proof that it is tolerated. It is tolerated, but when someone does it with dire consequences, condign punishments ensue. However, it's clear that those condign punishments aren't stopping people doing it.