I understand why people might object to tuition fees on a matter of principle, but

[Monty92]

when people talk about them “saddling young people with a lifetime of debt", isn’t this patently b*llocks?

They only have to start paying it off when they can afford to do so and only then at a level commensurate with their earnings.

That’s leaving aside the other benefits, such as it discouraging people from going to Uni for a jolly.

[Sir C]

when people talk about them “saddling young people with a lifetime of debt", isn’t this patently b*llocks?

They only have to start paying it off when they can afford to do so and only then at a level commensurate with their earnings.

That’s leaving aside the other benefits, such as it discouraging people from going to Uni for a jolly.

It's because 70 years of unrelenting socialism in this country has convinced hoi polloi that they deserve free shít, all paid for by someone else.

Personally I see no reason for anyone to go to university and would close the things down in the blink of an eye. There should be polytechnics to train doctors, lawyers, plumbers and electricians. Buildings filled with permanently infantalised longn haired layabouts 'learning' things like history (read a fúcking book!), English, (read a ucking book!) or, God help us, foreign languages (get a set of Michel Thomas CDs you lazy ****) are an insult to every decent human being who leaves school at 18 and goes to work, to earn money for his family and to pay taxes to help the mongs.

[Ash]

when people talk about them “saddling young people with a lifetime of debt", isn’t this patently b*llocks?

They only have to start paying it off when they can afford to do so and only then at a level commensurate with their earnings.

That’s leaving aside the other benefits, such as it discouraging people from going to Uni for a jolly.

The problem, imo, started with Tony Blair sitting on his sofa with his chums and they were saying "Now look, we've all done ok for ourselves. What is it about us? We went to university, of course! So if everyone goes to university, everyone will get nice middle class jobs. Woohoo!"

What this policy of HE expansion failed to address is that thousands more people getting utterly pointless and valueless qualifications in shít subjects at considerable expense doesn't actually create any jobs at all. It just means that you are now expected to have a degree to do almost any job above a building site.

[World's End Stella]

when people talk about them “saddling young people with a lifetime of debt", isn’t this patently b*llocks?

They only have to start paying it off when they can afford to do so and only then at a level commensurate with their earnings.

That’s leaving aside the other benefits, such as it discouraging people from going to Uni for a jolly.

That's a perfectly valid argument, Monty. But alongside that argument you should consider the fact that society itself benefits when young people educate themselves. People don't become doctors, engineers and scientists without a little help.

Smart, educated people invent an awful lot of cool stuff that makes our lives infinitely better. The internet, as an example.

[World's End Stella]

The problem, imo, started with Tony Blair sitting on his sofa with his chums and they were saying "Now look, we've all done ok for ourselves. What is it about us? We went to university, of course! So if everyone goes to university, everyone will get nice middle class jobs. Woohoo!"

What this policy of HE expansion failed to address is that thousands more people getting utterly pointless and valueless qualifications in shít subjects at considerable expense doesn't actually create any jobs at all. It just means that you are now expected to have a degree to do almost any job above a building site.

Exactly. The cost of university would be a lot easier to fund if we were only sending the top 15% of students to university as in days gone by. The rest is just a PR exercise which has wasted a lot of people's time and money.

[Sir C]

That's a perfectly valid argument, Monty. But alongside that argument you should consider the fact that society itself benefits when young people educate themselves. People don't become doctors, engineers and scientists without a little help.

Smart, educated people invent an awful lot of cool stuff that makes our lives infinitely better. The internet, as an example.

But surely if one's parents cannot afford to send one to university, one can't be considered a gentleman?

Why would you want the common herd to be educated? Surely this will just fill their heads with dangerous ideas?

[World's End Stella]

But surely if one's parents cannot afford to send one to university, one can't be considered a gentleman?

Why would you want the common herd to be educated? Surely this will just fill their heads with dangerous ideas?

That is another argument.

Although slightly more elitist than valid, I think.