Lordy. but there's some whining going on about yesterday's Brexit vote.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Oh, the protesting didn't bother me in the least (although here's a hint: next time try protesting before the referendum rather than afterwards ).
No, my issue is with people who lose a battle comprehensively and then simply keep banging on about why they should have won it really and how it's not fair and everyone else is horrible except them. It's the childishness I dislike - the petulant refusal to accept the world as it is rather than as they want it to be. Adult argument about the way forward is fine, but simply pissing and bitching about reality and wallowing in hysterical pessimistic fantasy is just tiresome.

The ones that i don't understand are those that want to see the negotiations fail miserably and the UK end up with a terrible deal. Like the kid who takes his ball home when he loses.

[Burney]

I do think there is a distinction between people who have valid points to make (still) and moaning, but yes, the overall tone of the latter has undoubtedly been harmful when it gives your opponents an easy target to attack and clouds the issues - and while it annoys me intensely, the Remoaners tag was a clever piece of jargon.

Corbyn is quite amazing - Labour must realise it is damage limitation time. The next election is a formality so actually keeping him is their best bet then a new leader can come in relatively untarnished

I agree. Since the referendum, a lot of people on the Remain side has badly damaged its image with spite, insults, snobbery and sheer bloody arrogance. It's made it very hard to hear the sensible arguments being put forward over the clamour of 'RACISTS!', insults about the elderly, naked contempt for the working class and absurd talk about 'far right Tory government'. All that's achieved is to harden the resolve of Leavers to stick two fingers up.

Thon Clive Lewis fella is positioning himself quite nicely. An 'honourable' rebellion and resignation means he won't be seen as a traitor by the left, but away from the front bench he can generate support on the right and centre of the party. Timing, though, will be everything. I don't think another leadership challenge is feasible and the left will do anything to cling to power even if it means reanimating Corbyn's corpse, so yes I think the 2020 election is the only hope.

[eastgermanautos]

You clearly understand the square root of fûck all about the issue, though. I'm mystified as to why you keep banging on about it.

Oh, I understand well enough. It's not hard to understand, even for me. Nations make bad decisions. The Venetian Empire back in the day had grown strong as a result of controlling Mediterranean sea-going commerce. Then they decided to to become embroiled in wars going on in Italy proper. They did not secure good results, were weakened, and meantime did not have enough capital to ensure their continued preeminence in the Mediterranean. Then those wily Portuguese found the trade route around Africa and there was Venice, fvcked.

You seem to have forgotten that England was not rising in the world pre-EU. The EU allowed London to become a center of banking. You abandon the EU because of some sh!tkickers out in the countryside not liking nonwhite people, and now you're not in a good position going forward.

Sad!

[Burney]

The ones that i don't understand are those that want to see the negotiations fail miserably and the UK end up with a terrible. Like the kid who takes his ball home when he loses.

Oh, yes. They're the really weird ones. People who tell you they voted Remain because they wanted the best for the UK and then in the next breath tell you they want to see the country fûcked just so they can be vindicated.

Mind you, that group essentially includes the First Minister of Scotland, who is in the bizarre position of pretty explicitly wanting her country's economy to tank so she can win another Independence referendum. I'd have thought that was a conflict of interests, but there you go.

[Burney]

Oh, I understand well enough. It's not hard to understand, even for me. Nations make bad decisions. The Venetian Empire back in the day had grown strong as a result of controlling Mediterranean sea-going commerce. Then they decided to to become embroiled in wars going on in Italy proper. They did not secure good results, were weakened, and meantime did not have enough capital to ensure their continued preeminence in the Mediterranean. Then those wily Portuguese found the trade route around Africa and there was Venice, fvcked.

You seem to have forgotten that England was not rising in the world pre-EU. The EU allowed London to become a center of banking. You abandon the EU because of some sh!tkickers out in the countryside not liking nonwhite people, and now you're not in a good position going forward.

Sad!

London was a - indeed the - centre of banking long before the EU and will continue to be long after, so don't worry your pretty little head about that. Your suggestion that without the EU we couldn't have been rather gives the lie to any suggestion that you have any historical understanding whatsoever, though.

You seem to have picked up the utterly bullshît received idea that we left the EU because racism. I'm guessing maybe you read one -maybe two - op-eds in The Guardian or the Washington Post to get that impression. If that is the level of your understanding, I don't have the time or the inclination to disabuse you of your idiotic notion. Try actually finding something out about the EU, how it works and why levels of support for it are currently as low as they are among its citizens and then come back to me.

[Luis Anaconda]

The ones that i don't understand are those that want to see the negotiations fail miserably and the UK end up with a terrible. Like the kid who takes his ball home when he loses.

or people who want Arsenal to lose so Arsene will go

[eastgermanautos]

or people who want Arsenal to lose so Arsene will go

But I mean, clearly he needs to go. We're agreed on that right?

[redgunamo]

Oh, I understand well enough. It's not hard to understand, even for me. Nations make bad decisions. The Venetian Empire back in the day had grown strong as a result of controlling Mediterranean sea-going commerce. Then they decided to to become embroiled in wars going on in Italy proper. They did not secure good results, were weakened, and meantime did not have enough capital to ensure their continued preeminence in the Mediterranean. Then those wily Portuguese found the trade route around Africa and there was Venice, fvcked.

You seem to have forgotten that England was not rising in the world pre-EU. The EU allowed London to become a center of banking. You abandon the EU because of some sh!tkickers out in the countryside not liking nonwhite people, and now you're not in a good position going forward.

Sad!

Hoy! IAHYK, e.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

or people who want Arsenal to lose so Arsene will go

Jack Clifford starting I Hope Haskell can be ready for the next game so Clifford can play at 6. Happy to see Nowell back too.

[Luis Anaconda]

I agree. Since the referendum, a lot of people on the Remain side has badly damaged its image with spite, insults, snobbery and sheer bloody arrogance. It's made it very hard to hear the sensible arguments being put forward over the clamour of 'RACISTS!', insults about the elderly, naked contempt for the working class and absurd talk about 'far right Tory government'. All that's achieved is to harden the resolve of Leavers to stick two fingers up.

Thon Clive Lewis fella is positioning himself quite nicely. An 'honourable' rebellion and resignation means he won't be seen as a traitor by the left, but away from the front bench he can generate support on the right and centre of the party. Timing, though, will be everything. I don't think another leadership challenge is feasible and the left will do anything to cling to power even if it means reanimating Corbyn's corpse, so yes I think the 2020 election is the only hope.

I like the cut of his jib - put that utter **** Milne in his place - and acted here, dare I say it, like a leader