I was going to vote reamin but

[The Jorge]

Do you find that referring to anyone who disagrees with you as, 'swivel-eyed', or 'mouthbreathers', does much to persuade people of the validity of your argument?

You seem to be under the misaprehension that I want to convince you otherwise. Also, you also pepper your posts with pejoratives so I'm keen to know what your experience is with it.

[Sir C]

You seem to be under the misaprehension that I want to convince you otherwise. Also, you also pepper your posts with pejoratives so I'm keen to know what your experience is with it.

You don't want to convince me but enjoy expounding your views anyway?

Isn't that what they call 'virtue signalling'?

[The Jorge]

You don't want to convince me but enjoy expounding your views anyway?

Isn't that what they call 'virtue signalling'?

No, that's when you want to show off how right on you are and constantly bang on abo......oh.

DONT OPRESS ME!!!

[Ash]

And that 10.8bn pales into insignificance alongside the value of the EU to the Uk economy, which is thought to be around £60-£80bn, so by any measure we're still £50bn up.

Surely you don't really believe that suddenly all trade between EU and UK would suddenly cease to exist? This debate should be about political accountability, not scaremongering about the supposed envanishment of the economy. Britain can still have healthy trade agreements. EU countries aren't going to suddenly impose sanctions on Britain and refuse to trade with it. The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world, and EU countries are still going to want to trade with it.

There was all this fearmongering about how disastrous it would be to not adopt the Euro.

Same with immigration from Europe. This vote isn't about sending people home and not allowing anyone else in. We can still have healthy immigration, although we will be more able to manage the best rate of doing this.

[Sir C]

No, that's when you want to show off how right on you are and constantly bang on abo......oh.

DONT OPRESS ME!!!

One - nil to moi, I believe. :licksfingerandmarksoneupintheair:

[The Jorge]

Surely you don't really believe that suddenly all trade between EU and UK would suddenly cease to exist? This debate should be about political accountability, not scaremongering about the supposed envanishment of the economy. Britain can still have healthy trade agreements. EU countries aren't going to suddenly impose sanctions on Britain and refuse to trade with it. The UK is the fifth largest economy in the world, and EU countries are still going to want to trade with it.

There was all this fearmongering about how disastrous it would be to not adopt the Euro.

Same with immigration from Europe. This vote isn't about sending people home and not allowing anyone else in. We can still have healthy immigration, although we will be more able to manage the best rate of doing this.

No, see, the political accountability thing is your *thing*. Personally I dont get it, mostly as I've stated before that I dont believe we've got anything like a properly functional democracy here anyway. You can bang on about unelected officials all you want but when we have an unelected house of lords and a hereditary head of state it's less than pointless.

Also, I wasnt scaremongering, I was pointing out the softer and much more valuable EU benefits when set against the net contribution argument.

The thing which, more than everything else, gets me is that we actually had more immigration from outside europe than we did from the EU last year. Given that fact do we really think we'll be able to "control" it better in the future?

[The Jorge]

One - nil to moi, I believe. :licksfingerandmarksoneupintheair:

You can be right and right on at the same time, you know

[Sir C]

You can be right and right on at the same time, you know

I imagine you can. Just as you can be right and on the right at the same time.

[The Jorge]

I imagine you can. Just as you can be right and on the right at the same time.

Indeed, just ask Ken Clarke

[Burney]

No, see, the political accountability thing is your *thing*. Personally I dont get it, mostly as I've stated before that I dont believe we've got anything like a properly functional democracy here anyway. You can bang on about unelected officials all you want but when we have an unelected house of lords and a hereditary head of state it's less than pointless.

Also, I wasnt scaremongering, I was pointing out the softer and much more valuable EU benefits when set against the net contribution argument.

The thing which, more than everything else, gets me is that we actually had more immigration from outside europe than we did from the EU last year. Given that fact do we really think we'll be able to "control" it better in the future?

Even if that argument weren't as utterly, pitifully flawed as it is (neither the House of Lords nor the Monarch has actual executive power - unlike the Commission), it is a strange and perverse argument to say that you believe it's right to vote for even less political accountability because you don't feel our level of political accountability at the moment is what it ought to be.

Oh, and your £60-£80 billion figure is entirely fictitious and utterly unprovable - something that ought to be obvious from the fact that there is a disparity of TWENTY - count 'em - £20 billion between the estimates