As happy as I am that we won a game I am afraid I feel I have to point out

[Peter]

It is possible that there may be a Gilberto effect going on with Xaka.

It's kind of forgotten nowadays, but for the first couple of years Gilberto was absolutely hated by most fans, but slowly they began to understand what he did and how important he was.

This may be rose tinted glasses but I don't remember Gilberto constantly giving the ball away. I recall us suggesting he was limited, and he certainly was, but in a good way.

Also, Xhaka has been with us for nearly two and a half seasons and seems to be getting worse.

It isn't entirely his fault. If we want to play out of the back then we need midfielders who will take the ball from the back four. For an hour last night I watched our centre backs endlessly passing to each other while our two midfielders hid, standing next to their markers with no desire to take the ball. Guendouzi was on the field for ten minutes and spent the entire time dropping off into space to take the ball.

If Xhaka isn't going to do this, he is of no real use to us.

[redgunamo]

Can we not knock it?

This may be rose tinted glasses but I don't remember Gilberto constantly giving the ball away. I recall us suggesting he was limited, and he certainly was, but in a good way.

Also, Xhaka has been with us for nearly two and a half seasons and seems to be getting worse.

It isn't entirely his fault. If we want to play out of the back then we need midfielders who will take the ball from the back four. For an hour last night I watched our centre backs endlessly passing to each other while our two midfielders hid, standing next to their markers with no desire to take the ball. Guendouzi was on the field for ten minutes and spent the entire time dropping off into space to take the ball.

If Xhaka isn't going to do this, he is of no real use to us.

[IUFG]

Can we not knock it?

hmmm, marvellous