We used to score goals like that under Arsène.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[QUOTE=Pokster;4250731]

Has everyone had a memory blank on how awful we were towards then end of AW's time in charge? Foir as bad as UE is doing, AW had 1 more point in his last 50 games and we were going backwards then

Yes. The problem isn’t getting rid of Wenger, it’s hiring Emery. But this was to be expected really. It took Liverpool and Spurs a while to find a decent manager and we will probably have to suffer for years as they did. One thing is for sure, Emery isn’t that man.

[WES]

[QUOTE=Billy Goat Sverige;4250732]

Yes. The problem isn’t getting rid of Wenger, it’s hiring Emery. But this was to be expected really. It took Liverpool and Spurs a while to find a decent manager and we will probably have to suffer for years as they did. One thing is for sure, Emery isn’t that man.

Yes, exactly right. Perhaps my memory is better than others (although at my age that would be surprising) but finishing 5th and 28 points off the title followed by 6th and 37 points behind the league winners doesn't fill me with longing for Wenger. Not to mention being 7 points closer to relegation than the title, the endless sideways passing and impotent possession, the terrible defending, the 5 and 6 goal hammerings where the players looked disorganised, demotivated and generally clueless and mos timportantly, failing season after season for exactly the same reasons. If you really long for Wenger, go to youtube and look up the 6-0 hammering at Chelsea, as bad as we are now, Emery hasn't come to close to that sort of debacle.

The squad looks the best it has in many years, I think, but the manager is clearly struggling badly. Give him until the end of the season and if it continues like this bring in someone new. There's still hope , you see. Under Wenger we had none.

[AFC East]

[QUOTE=WES;4250733]

The squad looks the best it has in many years, I think, but the manager is clearly struggling badly. Give him until the end of the season and if it continues like this bring in someone new. There's still hope , you see. Under Wenger we had none.

We've performed worse in the last 50 games than the previous 50 games and yet the Premiership looks to be at the weakest level in many, many years. Spurs and Man U have surely reached a nadir. A decent, but by no means amazing Leicester team are somehow third.

The only hope I can see is that Emery is fired quickly. Our defence is the worst I have seen and I've watched a lot more Arsenal games than you have. You may wish to dwell on some shocking individual games under Wenger, but this is a week in, week out feature right now.

Emery has taken us backwards, there is no strategy, there isn't even a game by game plan. Our results have got worse. We've lost Ramsey, he has mismanaged Xhaka out of the door. He has no idea how to handle Ozil. Torreira has gone seriously backwards under his tutelage.

I am not asking for a Wenger return, but the idea that this clown was an upgrade is farcical and it has been clear for quite some time.

[Burney]

[QUOTE=Billy Goat Sverige;4250732]

Yes. The problem isn’t getting rid of Wenger, it’s hiring Emery. But this was to be expected really. It took Liverpool and Spurs a while to find a decent manager and we will probably have to suffer for years as they did. One thing is for sure, Emery isn’t that man.

The question many of us asked when people were screaming to get rid of Wenger was who could replace him who would do better? We asked this because without someone better being available, getting rid of him was simply an irrational act.

Well we got rid of him and now we're worse off because his replacement is much, much worse. That means that one. There's really no getting away from that.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

[QUOTE=Burney;4250736]

The question many of us asked when people were screaming to get rid of Wenger was who could replace him who would do better? We asked this because without someone better being available, getting rid of him was simply an irrational act.

Well we got rid of him and now we're worse off because his replacement is much, much worse. That means that one. There's really no getting away from that.

The assumption was that the problems could be solved with a replacement of manager.

It does appear that the problems go much deeper. Ownership being the major one, direction and culture of the club being the other. The class that Arsenal always had has been eroded away with this ownership.

Emery's appointment was underwhelming but look at who hired him, Ivan Gazidis. Gazidis claimed that Emery was the board's number one choice, a man that had laboured a PSG team with money coming out of its ears, to one French title in 2 seasons. We all know that this was *******s and he was probably 5th or 6th choice.

[Burney]

[QUOTE=Alberto Balsam Rodriguez;4250742]

The assumption was that the problems could be solved with a replacement of manager.

It does appear that the problems go much deeper. Ownership being the major one, direction and culture of the club being the other. The class that Arsenal always had has been eroded away with this ownership.

Emery's appointment was underwhelming but look at who hired him, Ivan Gazidis. Gazidis claimed that Emery was the board's number one choice, a man that had laboured a PSG team with money coming out of its ears, to one French title in 2 seasons. We all know that this was *******s and he was probably 5th or 6th choice.

I wouldn't disagree. The rot set in when Kroenke bought the club to milk its revenues while providing the minimum possible investment to keep those revenues alive (pretty much his business model with every sports team he's ever bought, so we could hardly pretend to be surprised).
So my point - that Wenger (who had no control over this process) was always the wrong target and sacking him was fundamentally irrational - stands.

[WES]

[QUOTE=AFC East;4250734]

We've performed worse in the last 50 games than the previous 50 games and yet the Premiership looks to be at the weakest level in many, many years. Spurs and Man U have surely reached a nadir. A decent, but by no means amazing Leicester team are somehow third.

The only hope I can see is that Emery is fired quickly. Our defence is the worst I have seen and I've watched a lot more Arsenal games than you have. You may wish to dwell on some shocking individual games under Wenger, but this is a week in, week out feature right now.

Emery has taken us backwards, there is no strategy, there isn't even a game by game plan. Our results have got worse. We've lost Ramsey, he has mismanaged Xhaka out of the door. He has no idea how to handle Ozil. Torreira has gone seriously backwards under his tutelage.

I am not asking for a Wenger return, but the idea that this clown was an upgrade is farcical and it has been clear for quite some time.

It wasn't clear at the end of last season when he clearly improved us in every statistical category.

But I agree he is performing very poorly now, however I would still give him to the end of the year and then take a decision.

And the logic behind replacing Wenger was that we continued to fail season after season for the same reason with no sign that he was willing to change. The fact that his replacement may not be the person to take us forward doesn't invalidate the decision.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

[QUOTE=Burney;4250744]

I wouldn't disagree. The rot set in when Kroenke bought the club to milk its revenues while providing the minimum possible investment to keep those revenues alive (pretty much his business model with every sports team he's ever bought, so we could hardly pretend to be surprised).
So my point - that Wenger (who had no control over this process) was always the wrong target and sacking him was fundamentally irrational - stands.

I'm not disagreeing with your point. It was only every likely to be clear to see that Kronke was the issue (to the average fan), when Wenger was not there to provide cover for this. The abuse that Wenger took was unfair and unacceptable and the manner in which he was forced out was classless. I personally think he needed to go for his own wellbeing and health. He owed the club nothing and owed the owners even less.

Hiring Emery was always going to makes Emery the target and deflect from the owners. He is in an impossible situation and lacks much the guile and skill of Wenger to deal with it. For this, i do feel sorry for Emery, forget for a minute what his credentials are as a coach. Hiring someone like a Pep, an Allegri or similar, would have exposed the ownership even more as it would come with an expectation to compete, so why would they go in that direction?

Results are dictating that Emery's time is up but the owners do not need to do this as they are happy with him being the target. As soon as the fans turn on the owners, Emery will be sacked.

Arsenal has lost its identity. It cannot regain this with the current ownership. Forget the manager, we need to get these parasites out, which is much harder.

[Burney]

[QUOTE=WES;4250752]

It wasn't clear at the end of last season when he clearly improved us in every statistical category.

But I agree he is performing very poorly now, however I would still give him to the end of the year and then take a decision.

And the logic behind replacing Wenger was that we continued to fail season after season for the same reason with no sign that he was willing to change. The fact that his replacement may not be the person to take us forward doesn't invalidate the decision.

So getting rid of someone on the grounds that they're 'failing', only for their replacement to redefine the concept of failure by being much, much worse doesn't for one moment make you wonder whether the initial decision may have been flawed, no?

Extraordinary.

[Burney]

[QUOTE=Alberto Balsam Rodriguez;4250755]

I'm not disagreeing with your point. It was only every likely to be clear to see that Kronke was the issue (to the average fan), when Wenger was not there to provide cover for this. The abuse that Wenger took was unfair and unacceptable and the manner in which he was forced out was classless. I personally think he needed to go for his own wellbeing and health. He owed the club nothing and owed the owners even less.

Hiring Emery was always going to makes Emery the target and deflect from the owners. He is in an impossible situation and lacks much the guile and skill of Wenger to deal with it. For this, i do feel sorry for Emery, forget for a minute what his credentials are as a coach. Hiring someone like a Pep, an Allegri or similar, would have exposed the ownership even more as it would come with an expectation to compete, so why would they go in that direction?

Results are dictating that Emery's time is up but the owners do not need to do this as they are happy with him being the target. As soon as the fans turn on the owners, Emery will be sacked.

Arsenal has lost its identity. It cannot regain this with the current ownership. Forget the manager, we need to get these parasites out, which is much harder.

Nothing to be done. Bloke owns the place. He can do what he likes. We're just punters.