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Thread: Hmmm. Churches in France do seem to be suffering a terrible run of luck lately.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by PSRB View Post
    There is a picture of the early stages of the fire on the BBC website, it definitely starts in the roof. Which would seem to point to an accident.
    I don't think anyone agrees that it was probably an accident. But it might have been deliberate.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Amazing. So when we started having this discussion they hadn't said anything, but now they have, you're using that to justify your argument?

    Fúck me. That's mendacious in the extreme.
    My default position was an unfortunate accident, that has strengthened after further comments this morning? I'm not quite sure why that is such a strange opening position?
    Northern Monkey ... who can't upload a bleeding Avatar

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokster View Post
    I haven't missed the link, I would suggest the huge probaility that it is an accident, with a small chance it was arson....which seems to be the opposite of what b is suggesting
    Apparently they had gennies in the loft with **** loads of wires everywhere because of elctrical and lighting problems. Which is basically asking for it.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Well, I'd say that without the ongoing story of churches being targeted in France your "huge probaility that it is an accident, with a small chance it was arson" would be the sensible conclusion, but when you add in the knowledge that recently this stuff keeps happeneing, surely your view changes a little? I mean "huge probability" versus "small chance"? Really?
    1. It happened around 7pm French time, didn't it? I've spent a lot of time around that Church in the last 3 months and I'm telling you, there's at very least a short queue to get in, sometimes a long one. You get your bags searched on the way in. There are loads of people inside, wandering around, all taking photos on phones, lighting candles (as I did a few times in front of Jeanne d'Arc) etc etc.

    There is absolutely no way anyone could get in there with stuff to start a fire - they won't let me in with a can of 8.6 in the bag, so a bottle of petrol is a no-no - manage to walk round without being on a dozen tourists' cameras and get into the loft (cos there's no way you can start a fire in a corner with a Church full of tourists without being seen), set the place on fire, get down from the loft and get out without being caught.

    Absolutely none.

    The place is shut at night. When it's open, there are guards searching bags on the entrances and it's always full of tourists.

    So please, C, how on earth can you think anyone would start a fire at 7pm in a guarded, crowded church?

    2. Imagine it was an evil allan as B suggests. As I say, he'd get caught 'cos of all the camera phones and the police presence outside every single time I was walking through there. If he gets caught, he gets banged up for life doing that. Surely it's better to murder a few kaffirs and go to paradise?

    3. What with the GJs, there wasn't any Muslim **** when I was there. But there was some strong anti-clerical stuff. There always has been, what with laicité and all that. That report says hardcore secularists or feminists. Ok, I wasn't in a Muslim area and I don't see how anyone could have got in and started one at that time. And I doubt any would actually do ND. But I would say either of those, in the current climate, are actually more likely than muzzies if we were talking about some minor desecration of a small church.

    4. Also around late Feb, there were loads of Swastikas on Jewish graves up in Alsace and loads more desecrated in the suburbs. Macron et al started saying it was all us GJs and that cünt Bremner in the Times started parroting it. The French Bernis said it was all the Muzzies. Turns out that the stuff in the East was by some neo-nazi group called The Wolves of Alsace (but in German) while the stuff in the suburbs was some middle-aged, local govt chief financial officer for the 94 dept, with known FN and other far right links.

    Bet you a bloc of foie gras to a can of Brew it wasn't allans.

    It's an accident. Started in the loft, no way anyone can get in there with the guards and the crowds et al. And they had gennies up there with loads of wires.

    Hate to break it to you.

    If you go to St Paul Church on Rue Rivoli towards Bastille, that would have been easy to do. Been in there alone several times and there's a lovely Delacroix.

    But there is no way any arsonist is getting in and out of ND unseen at 7pm on a Monday night.

    Not a hope in hell.

  5. #35
    Yes, quite impossible. Imagine, for example, a group of lads learning to fly an aeroplane. breaking into the flight deck and flying those aeroplanes into New York skyscrapers. Abolsutely absurd, no? Nothing like that could possibly happen!

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Yes, quite impossible. Imagine, for example, a group of lads learning to fly an aeroplane. breaking into the flight deck and flying those aeroplanes into New York skyscrapers. Abolsutely absurd, no? Nothing like that could possibly happen!
    Breaking in when there was no security as such on flights, I would imagine it would be a lot harder to do now. Bit like breaking in to a national monument 20 years ago would have been a lot easier than it is now
    Northern Monkey ... who can't upload a bleeding Avatar

  7. #37
    Nonsense, I'm afraid. You're looking at the thing from an ordinary, innocent person's point of view.

    Thing is, if it's my job to get in and start a fire, I get in and start a fire. I find a way, because it's my job.

    It may have been an accident though, all the same. No-one knows enough to say yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult View Post
    1. It happened around 7pm French time, didn't it? I've spent a lot of time around that Church in the last 3 months and I'm telling you, there's at very least a short queue to get in, sometimes a long one. You get your bags searched on the way in. There are loads of people inside, wandering around, all taking photos on phones, lighting candles (as I did a few times in front of Jeanne d'Arc) etc etc.

    There is absolutely no way anyone could get in there with stuff to start a fire - they won't let me in with a can of 8.6 in the bag, so a bottle of petrol is a no-no - manage to walk round without being on a dozen tourists' cameras and get into the loft (cos there's no way you can start a fire in a corner with a Church full of tourists without being seen), set the place on fire, get down from the loft and get out without being caught.

    Absolutely none.

    The place is shut at night. When it's open, there are guards searching bags on the entrances and it's always full of tourists.

    So please, C, how on earth can you think anyone would start a fire at 7pm in a guarded, crowded church?

    2. Imagine it was an evil allan as B suggests. As I say, he'd get caught 'cos of all the camera phones and the police presence outside every single time I was walking through there. If he gets caught, he gets banged up for life doing that. Surely it's better to murder a few kaffirs and go to paradise?

    3. What with the GJs, there wasn't any Muslim **** when I was there. But there was some strong anti-clerical stuff. There always has been, what with laicité and all that. That report says hardcore secularists or feminists. Ok, I wasn't in a Muslim area and I don't see how anyone could have got in and started one at that time. And I doubt any would actually do ND. But I would say either of those, in the current climate, are actually more likely than muzzies if we were talking about some minor desecration of a small church.

    4. Also around late Feb, there were loads of Swastikas on Jewish graves up in Alsace and loads more desecrated in the suburbs. Macron et al started saying it was all us GJs and that cünt Bremner in the Times started parroting it. The French Bernis said it was all the Muzzies. Turns out that the stuff in the East was by some neo-nazi group called The Wolves of Alsace (but in German) while the stuff in the suburbs was some middle-aged, local govt chief financial officer for the 94 dept, with known FN and other far right links.

    Bet you a bloc of foie gras to a can of Brew it wasn't allans.

    It's an accident. Started in the loft, no way anyone can get in there with the guards and the crowds et al. And they had gennies up there with loads of wires.

    Hate to break it to you.

    If you go to St Paul Church on Rue Rivoli towards Bastille, that would have been easy to do. Been in there alone several times and there's a lovely Delacroix.

    But there is no way any arsonist is getting in and out of ND unseen at 7pm on a Monday night.

    Not a hope in hell.
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokster View Post
    Breaking in when there was no security as such on flights, I would imagine it would be a lot harder to do now. Bit like breaking in to a national monument 20 years ago would have been a lot easier than it is now
    What a lot of old bollócks. How much security is there around a cathedral, for Christ's sake?

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokster View Post
    Well since the Paris Fire Authority have already said they don't believe it is Arson, unless you are assuming they are lying to protect some group, then i would suggest it was an accident is a very high probability
    Not quite. “There is no indication that this was a deliberate act,” is what's been said. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Here's something that never happens in normal fire investigations: people ruling out arson while the thing's still smoking.
    Last edited by Burney; 04-16-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    What a lot of old bollócks. How much security is there around a cathedral, for Christ's sake?
    Last time I was there, I seem to remember the nearest thing to security was some bástard jewing money out of you at the door.

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