The Commission (executive) are not elected.Originally Posted by WES
I am unfamiliar with the internal workings of the EU. But if we delay I am told that we will have to participate in EU elections, yet I am also told that the EU is unelected.
Anyone know which it is?
Are decisions taken by the executive or as a result of a vote by the elected representatives?
The parliament cannot propose legislation, only rubber-stamp it. Why do you think the commission are unelected? Why do you think nobody gives a stuff about European elections and almost no-one knows who their MEP is?
Basically a parliament that doesn't appear to parley a great deal
Um, that sounds like our democracy. If by 'rubber-stamp' you mean 'vote on'. And UK citizens being ambivalent to European elections does not make them any less democratic.
I think I understand the situation now, many thanks.
If we don't like our executive we can vote it out. If you want to see how undemocratic the Commission is, see how they have ignored or overturned numerous referendums around Europe when people voted the 'wrong' way. France, Netherlands, Greece and Ireland have all had popular votes overturned or made to vote again until they get it right. Sound familiar?
Italy wasn't allowed to set its own Keynesian budget after the people had voted for a left-right coalition opposed to austerity policies.
It's not fair to conflate the Eurozone with the EU.
For all the idiocy of a monetary union without a fiscal union, and the hypocrisy of allowing Fr and Ger to break the budget limit but not Italy, they chose to be in the EZ and have to obey the rules. They can leave if they don't like it. And we all know why they won't.
That doesn't apply to us as EU but non EZ members.
Why it's wrong for the EU to make people vote again 'till they get it right, but fine for May to keep asking Parl to do likewise, I've no idea.
But the point is that on every occassion that EU states voted again, the proposition was supported by their democratically elected national govts, and often the opposition too.
The trouble stems from the fact that most people don't take Europe seriously enough and will therefore use an EU vote to stick two fingers up to the establishment. {Remember when the Greens won 15% here in the late '80s?}
So you often had a case of the public rejecting the vote of a way of sending a message o their rulers (much like Brexit was a protest against austerity andimmigration).
The govt of whichever country would say "Ok, we get it. But look, this deal really is in all our interests. That's why most main parties in most main countries support it. So look, we'll listen to you about the domestic issues that prompted your protest vote but please vote again, cos we don't want to appear the country holding everyone back, do we?"
I accept it's a horrible look. And I wish it hadn't happened as the biggest argument against the 2nd vote I desire is that it looks like the EU telling us to keep voting 'till we get it right. {A la May.}
The EU is far from perfect and maybe Brexit and the coming MEP votes might wake them up a bit. But I would still rather be in the club helping reform it than stuck in an economically destructive limbo with no unilateral escape mechanism, ending up a rule taker with no say in their making.
With the rebate and opt-outs we had the best of both worlds.
Just because some EU members are not in the EZ doesn't make the EZ irrelevant to the EU. It is intrinsic to the trajectory of the project. When a country cannot set its interest rates or float its currency it cannot adapt to the market and will suffer. Therefore the EZ, a core aspect of the EU has failed. You know this, I believe.
Where did I say it was fine for May to keep taking her bill back? You've put the cart before the horse by saying that a second referendum makes the EU look like May. Other way round, chronologically. The fact that national governments regularly support the EU over the wishes of their own people points to the corruption and failure to represent of the political class as a whole. This will change.
The ruling elite will never reform unless they are forced.
Far too much legislation just seems to trickle out unannounced and like most people, I didn't really care til I saw some that would impact me directly.
Specifically, some laws were being proposed that would prevent me, as a biker, doing my own servicing and maintenance on my own bike! - ostensibly a safety issue but in reality, I suspect, the devil making work for idle and overpaid bureaucrats.
Now a soft handed sissy like you that can't even change a bicycle tyre would probably agree but I will defend my right to maintain my own machinery with the same ferocity the Yanqi defends his right to arm himself to the teeth. You prise my spanners from my cold dead hand.
You can't get properly powerful elements for your grill any more. My toast takes ages and it's never crisp enough any more.
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