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Thread: So last night did restore at least a tiny scrap of my faith in our democracy.

  1. #1

    So last night did restore at least a tiny scrap of my faith in our democracy.

    Mind you, itís more a function of everyone being desperate to have someone else to blame when No Deal happens than any commitment to honouring the outcome of the referendum, but fýck it, Iíll take it.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Mind you, it’s more a function of everyone being desperate to have someone else to blame when No Deal happens than any commitment to honouring the outcome of the referendum, but fýck it, I’ll take it.
    No Deal ain't happening, mate.

    It's either May's Deal (with minor tweaks to the Backstop) or no Brexit.

    Probably.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    No Deal ain't happening, mate.

    It's either May's Deal (with minor tweaks to the Backstop) or no Brexit.

    Probably.
    No, m. The mechanisms for stopping Brexit simply donít exist. And neither is there the political will to achieve it. Both Labour and the tories are terrified of being seen to stop Brexit because doing so will destroy both electorally. Equally, a second referendum is now a dead duck.

    The only options now are deal and no deal. I would guess a fudged deal will happen, but I wouldnít put any money on it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    No, m. The mechanisms for stopping Brexit simply don’t exist. And neither is there the political will to achieve it. Both Labour and the tories are terrified of being seen to stop Brexit because doing so will destroy both electorally. Equally, a second referendum is now a dead duck.

    The only options now are deal and no deal. I would guess a fudged deal will happen, but I wouldn’t put any money on it.
    A fudged deal enabled by the supposedly intransigent DUP and ERG? I'm sure you were telling me just days ago why this simply wasn't going to happen (despite me predicting it months ago)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    No, m. The mechanisms for stopping Brexit simply donít exist. And neither is there the political will to achieve it. Both Labour and the tories are terrified of being seen to stop Brexit because doing so will destroy both electorally. Equally, a second referendum is now a dead duck.

    The only options now are deal and no deal. I would guess a fudged deal will happen, but I wouldnít put any money on it.
    It will be a Brexit so soft that it might as well have not happened at all.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    A fudged deal enabled by the supposedly intransigent DUP and ERG? I'm sure you were telling me just days ago why this simply wasn't going to happen (despite me predicting it months ago)
    No, I said that an unlimited backstop that we could not escape from unilaterally would never be acceltable to the ERG and DUP. That still stands. Any workable fudge will have to overcome that.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    It will be a Brexit so soft that it might as well have not happened at all.
    Uh-huh? And on what are you basing that rather bold assertion?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    No, I said that an unlimited backstop that we could not escape from unilaterally would never be acceltable to the ERG and DUP. That still stands. Any workable fudge will have to overcome that.
    Yes but - and forgive me if I'm wrong - at the time the original deal was voted down, you seemed to be of the view that the ERG's objections were so wide-ranging (extending, as they did, far beyond the matter of the Backstop) that the deal was 100% dead in the water.

    Now you seem to be saying a "small fudge" could see them fall into line, presumably because you've now come to agree with my original prediction made months ago

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Yes but - and forgive me if I'm wrong - at the time the original deal was voted down, you seemed to be of the view that the ERG's objections were so wide-ranging (extending, as they did, far beyond the Backstop) that the deal was 100% dead in the water.

    Now you seem to be saying a "small fudge" could see them fall into line, presumably because you've now come to agree with my original prediction made months ago
    No. As I said, May's deal IS the backstop. Changing that is not a small anything. Anything else is a different deal altogether.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    No. As I said, May's deal IS the backstop. Changing that is not a small anything. Anything else is a different deal altogether.
    So what is the "small fudge" that wouldn't surprise you?

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