So I've only paid a small amount of attention to all this Brexit nonsense

[Monty92]

Well of course it would have done. A negotiation from which you're not prepared to walk away is not a negotiation, it's a document of surrender.

Have you been following the Spectator's to and fro with Downing Street? It does truly seem this deal is as bad as anyone could possibly have imagined.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/1...10s-rebuttals/

[WES]

We have established that WES doesn't really understand or care about democratic principles and imagines that all that matters is whether business flows smoothly. Trying to explain the democratic issues with the Brexit deal to him is like trying to explain vegetarianism to a shark.

You seem to be missing the point. Which is that the exit deal won't substantially change what we eventually negotiate. Democratic issues are orthogonal to this point.

[Norn Iron]

You seem to be missing the point. Which is that the exit deal won't substantially change what we eventually negotiate. Democratic issues are orthogonal to this point.

The withdrawal agreement is legally binding. Agreeing this deal puts the UK on the back foot when negotiating future terms with the EU.

[Burney]

Have you been following the Spectator's to and fro with Downing Street? It does truly seem this deal is as bad as anyone could possibly have imagined.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/1...10s-rebuttals/

Unfortunately, yes. It makes a profoundly depressing read. Particularly as we have signed up to things that we didn't need to that are simply an embarrassment.

In my more paranoid moments over the last two years I've imagined the idea was to deliberately create a deal so bad that it made the idea of remaining palatable. I've dismissed these thoughts as absurd - no British PM would dream of doing such a thing.

I'm no longer dismissing the thought. This is a Remain stitch-up.

[Burney]

You seem to be missing the point. Which is that the exit deal won't substantially change what we eventually negotiate. Democratic issues are orthogonal to this point.

And you repeatedly miss the point that in a democracy, democratic issues are never orthogonal.

[Sir C]

So basically well done to the idiot that decided giving the population this vote was a good idea..... total **** up from start to finish as you end up pissing off practically everyone in the country.. wd dc

"Hmm, the majority of the population want something that doesn't suit their betters, we'd better gag them and not allow them a say."

Strange idea of democracy you've got there.

[Rich]

Unfortunately, yes. It makes a profoundly depressing read. Particularly as we have signed up to things that we didn't need to that are simply an embarrassment.

In my more paranoid moments over the last two years I've imagined the idea was to deliberately create a deal so bad that it made the idea of remaining palatable. I've dismissed these thoughts as absurd - no British PM would dream of doing such a thing.

I'm no longer dismissing the thought. This is a Remain stitch-up.

I'm a leetle bit on the fence about it. However, I suspect May asked for what she wanted and was promptly told to do one by the EU. Unfortunately, leaving with no deal will 100% hurt most of the people that voted for Brexit (though I accept they didn't know what they were voting for at the time).

I think we'll need a final referendum to decide whether we want to accept the deal we do have or remain. I highly doubt we will leave with no deal since it means that everybody loses.

[Burney]

I'm a leetle bit on the fence about it. However, I suspect May asked for what she wanted and was promptly told to do one by the EU. Unfortunately, leaving with no deal will 100% hurt most of the people that voted for Brexit (though I accept they didn't know what they were voting for at the time).

I think we'll need a final referendum to decide whether we want to accept the deal we do have or remain. I highly doubt we will leave with no deal since it means that everybody loses.

Your solution is, of course, what this abject surrender was designed to achieve. Like I say, a Remain stitch-up.

[Monty92]

"Hmm, the majority of the population want something that doesn't suit their betters, we'd better gag them and not allow them a say."

Strange idea of democracy you've got there.

Yes, although polling also suggests that the majority of the population advocate the death pelanty.

[WES]

And you repeatedly miss the point that in a democracy, democratic issues are never orthogonal.

So if we attempt to negotiate a future relationship with the EU, they play hardball and we then leave on a hard Brexit (something that the current agreement does not prevent) - what would be your democratic issue?