And the winner of the Swedish election is......

[Peter]

Britain is a classic example of the fact that the political class cannot simply ignore issues because they don't like them and hope to get away with it. Sooner or later, they'll come back to bite you on the arse. A classic example would Blair's craven and cynical failure to offer the promised referendum on Lisbon. That led directly to Brexit. That referendum could have been the pressure valve needed to keep us in the EU (not least by arresting some of the most unpopular aspects of the modern EU). Instead, he bottled it and resentment grew. The result was Brexit.

The attempt by political elites to ignore or suppress public sentiment on key issues only ever results in a more extreme version of the thing they feared in the first place. This is a lesson history teaches us over and over again. And yet short-sighted politicians and their lackeys (ie you) ignore it over and over again.

History doesnt really teach us that at all. The political class 'manage' democracies in their own interests and they always have done. Brexit did not happen because the political class caved into some irresistible groundswell of public sentiment. A PRime Minister took a measured punt on a cynical electoral ploy which hugely backfired on him.

This isnt the political class caving in to mass sentiment. It is them misreading it and believing they can use it to their own short term gain. In other words, it was a mistake.

[Burney]

History doesnt really teach us that at all. The political class 'manage' democracies in their own interests and they always have done. Brexit did not happen because the political class caved into some irresistible groundswell of public sentiment. A PRime Minister took a measured punt on a cynical electoral ploy which hugely backfired on him.

This isnt the political class caving in to mass sentiment. It is them misreading it and believing they can use it to their own short term gain. In other words, it was a mistake.

No. Because of strong public sentiment, a political party grew from virtually nothing to a point whereby it could 'win' the European election; put a Tory PM into a situation where he had to choose between offering a referendum or losing office; and ultimately win that referendum. That is democracy working exactly the way it should - and is even more remarkable for having come about in an electoral system so heavily loaded against single-issue politics as ours.

It's only a 'mistake' for those technocratic types who wrongly and arrogantly imagine that democratic politics can for any length of time be conducted independently of the wishes of the demos.

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

And yet short-sighted politicians and their lackeys (ie you) ignore it over and over again.

gonna stand for that or you gonna stick one on his beak like a real man?

[Burney]

gonna stand for that or you gonna stick one on his beak like a real man?

I'll go further. He's a lickspittle. A toady. A fart-catcher for the political elite.

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

It's only a 'mistake' for those technocratic types who wrongly and arrogantly imagine that democratic politics can for any length of time be conducted independently of the wishes of the demos.

Farkin 'ell Pete mate. Now he's called you an arrogant techo wánker or summat. You gonna bottle it again?

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

I'll go further. He's a lickspittle. A toady. A fart-catcher for the political elite.

Are you saying that had he lived in Stalin's USSR he would have been the worst kind of duplicitous apparatchik, feverishly noshing Uncle Joe's bellend at the mere flick of the murderous old Georgian's fingers? A scurrilous libel b.

[Peter]

No. Because of strong public sentiment, a political party grew from virtually nothing to a point whereby it could 'win' the European election; put a Tory PM into a situation where he had to choose between offering a referendum or losing office; and ultimately win that referendum. That is democracy working exactly the way it should - and is even more remarkable for having come about in an electoral system so heavily loaded against single-issue politics as ours.

It's only a 'mistake' for those technocratic types who wrongly and arrogantly imagine that democratic politics can for any length of time be conducted independently of the wishes of the demos.

Democratic politics is always conducted independently of the wishes of the electorate- as I said, that is pretty much the purpose of a political party. Elections are fought between two different versions of the same view and all views that sit outside of that are ignored.

Which is why it is quite amusing to see someone like you get so high and mighty about it the minute it happens to exclude you.

Look at you and Sir C ****ting your pants about Corbyn. The sheer terror that seizes you the minute the prospect of a genuine left wing government becomes even remotely realistic is tremendous fun.

Whichever way you cut it, Brexit happened by accident. Cameron's gamble only happened because of a delicate electoral balance which was NOT just about UKIP. Not even mainly about it. It is a strange argument to suggest that an accident after a 40 year wait is democracy in action.

Once this is done and dusted the political class will be back in total control and wil be ignoring all of us for decades to come. And you won't complain about it.

[Peter]

I'll go further. He's a lickspittle. A toady. A fart-catcher for the political elite.

I thought I was a dangerous communist, a threat to the nation and your very way of life.

You backwoods, ****kicking, right wing reactionaries just can't seem to make up your mind

[Burney]

Democratic politics is always conducted independently of the wishes of the electorate- as I said, that is pretty much the purpose of a political party. Elections are fought between two different versions of the same view and all views that sit outside of that are ignored.

Which is why it is quite amusing to see someone like you get so high and mighty about it the minute it happens to exclude you.

Look at you and Sir C ****ting your pants about Corbyn. The sheer terror that seizes you the minute the prospect of a genuine left wing government becomes even remotely realistic is tremendous fun.

Whichever way you cut it, Brexit happened by accident. Cameron's gamble only happened because of a delicate electoral balance which was NOT just about UKIP. Not even mainly about it. It is a strange argument to suggest that an accident after a 40 year wait is democracy in action.

Once this is done and dusted the political class will be back in total control and wil be ignoring all of us for decades to come. And you won't complain about it.

No. You are demonstrably wrong. Democratic politics can happen contrary to the wishes of the demos, but that can only create an unstable status quo. This country's Parliamentary history is littered with examples where ground has been given to public sentiment in order to avoid a more cataclysmic backlash. The mistake in recent years has been to assume that such concessions are no longer necessary because consensus - or at least equilibrium - has been achieved. This thinking led to the 'there is no alternative' mindset of which EU membership has been such a key aspect. This complacency is why Brexit has come as such a nasty shock. It has shown that everything is far from settled and that there are monumental political battles still to be fought. The status quo ante is not coming back.

[Peter]

No. You are demonstrably wrong. Democratic politics can happen contrary to the wishes of the demos, but that can only create an unstable status quo. This country's Parliamentary history is littered with examples where ground has been given to public sentiment in order to avoid a more cataclysmic backlash. The mistake in recent years has been to assume that such concessions are no longer necessary because consensus - or at least equilibrium - has been achieved. This thinking led to the 'there is no alternative' mindset of which EU membership has been such a key aspect. This complacency is why Brexit has come as such a nasty shock. It has shown that everything is far from settled and that there are monumental political battles still to be fought. The status quo ante is not coming back.

Wow. Do you really believe that?

You think this means political realignment across the board; a new and profound democracy for Britain?

****ing hell.....