The Donald absolutely ripping into the krauts, here.

[Peter]

You think the pact wasn't misjudged on Russia's part? Despite the fact that it resulted in Germany damn near taking Moscow and killing 20 million Russians? Wow.

And I hardly think Britain's attempt to avoid war - morally dubious as it was - can be compared with Russia's cynical and murderous carving up of Poland.

And yes, we did have some issues with the idea of entering into any sort of alliance with a murderous and demonstrably untrustworthy regime that was busy slaughtering its citizens and was clearly ideologically opposed to everything we stood for.

Meanwhile, your representation of the war in the Far East is pretty ludicrous given that the 14th Army under Slim repeatedly battered and ultimately defeated the Japanese subsequent to the Fall of Singapore, including handing their army their first major defeats of the war at Kohima and Imphal.

Stalin delayed awar he wasn't prepared for in order to fight onetwo years later that he was barely prepared for. Did we not carve up Czechoslovakia to avoid war with Germany? Why is it ok for us to do so despite it affecting millions of people somewhere else but morally reprehensible when Stalin does it?

As far as the Far East is concerned, yes, the tide eventually turned. But not in the period you were talking about. Following US involvement, of course.

As for refusing to ally ourselves with untrustworthy commies....errrr, isnt that exactly what we ended up doing anyway, as Stalin dealt Hitler a fatal wound on the Eastern front. The initial refusal to talk to them might appear slightly misjudged given that victory ultimately relied on striking Germany from both sides simultaneously.

[Sir C]

Stalin delayed awar he wasn't prepared for in order to fight onetwo years later that he was barely prepared for. Did we not carve up Czechoslovakia to avoid war with Germany? Why is it ok for us to do so despite it affecting millions of people somewhere else but morally reprehensible when Stalin does it?

As far as the Far East is concerned, yes, the tide eventually turned. But not in the period you were talking about. Following US involvement, of course.

As for refusing to ally ourselves with untrustworthy commies....errrr, isnt that exactly what we ended up doing anyway, as Stalin dealt Hitler a fatal wound on the Eastern front. The initial refusal to talk to them might appear slightly misjudged given that victory ultimately relied on striking Germany from both sides simultaneously.

Is this version of history being taught in schools nowadays?

I knew Tony fúcking Benn and his KGB masters would win in the end.

[Burney]

Stalin delayed awar he wasn't prepared for in order to fight onetwo years later that he was barely prepared for. Did we not carve up Czechoslovakia to avoid war with Germany? Why is it ok for us to do so despite it affecting millions of people somewhere else but morally reprehensible when Stalin does it?

As far as the Far East is concerned, yes, the tide eventually turned. But not in the period you were talking about. Following US involvement, of course.

As for refusing to ally ourselves with untrustworthy commies....errrr, isnt that exactly what we ended up doing anyway, as Stalin dealt Hitler a fatal wound on the Eastern front. The initial refusal to talk to them might appear slightly misjudged given that victory ultimately relied on striking Germany from both sides simultaneously.

Certainly Stalin knew there would eventually be war with Germany. However, he was totally unprepared and in denial in 1941 - so much so that he refused to believe his own intelligence services when they told him Germany was going to attack - even after they'd actually invaded, in fact. He had lost six million troops by early 1942 - that is not my idea of 'barely prepared' and, if it was as a result of calculation, I'd say those calculations had been pretty flawed, wouldn't you?

The tide turned in the Far East in part because we were out there rather than 'sitting, defending our island' as you suggested.

We didn't occupy Czechoslovakia and start murdering people as far as I'm aware, p, so that comparison doesn't work.

We allied with Russia because we had a common enemy - no other reason. And of course, as soon as the common enemy disappeared, Stalin showed that we had been right not to trust him before the war by immediately reverting to type, grabbing the whole of Eastern Europe and trying to seize Berlin.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Peter went to Kiev Comprehensive

[Peter]

Certainly Stalin knew there would eventually be war with Germany. However, he was totally unprepared and in denial in 1941 - so much so that he refused to believe his own intelligence services when they told him Germany was going to attack - even after they'd actually invaded, in fact. He had lost six million troops by early 1942 - that is not my idea of 'barely prepared' and, if it was as a result of calculation, I'd say those calculations had been pretty flawed, wouldn't you?

We didn't occupy Czechoslovakia and start murdering people as far as I'm aware, p, so that comparison doesn't work.

We allied with Russia because we had a common enemy - no other reason. And of course, as soon as the common enemy disappeared, Stalin showed that we had been right not to trust him before the war by immediately reverting to type, grabbing the whole of Eastern Europe and trying to seize Berlin.

I think the point is that we had a common enemy in 1939. Stalin saw it, we didnt. We thought the Yanks would be on their way soon (two and a half ****ing years!) and so told Joe to sling his hook. On reflection, probably not a great move.

[Peter]

Is this version of history being taught in schools nowadays?

I knew Tony fúcking Benn and his KGB masters would win in the end.

It is hardly an earth shattering discovery to suggest that the war may have been going rather well for Germanyand Japan for the first couple of years, is it? Or that the entry of the Soviet Union and USA played some part in turning the tide?

Yeah, its all Tony Benn's fault