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Thread: Morrisey's at it again :clap:

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Hitler was left wing (yaaaaawn)........

    His particular brand of 'racism' is too enlightened for people to understand..... (dear God).....

    Civilisation is over because the Mayor of London doesn't sufficiently pronounce the letter t..........

    I mean, he always talked **** but his music used to be good.
    1. Whether or not the truth bores you, Hitler was a National Socialist who described himself as a socialist and behaved like a socialist.

    2. Just calling him a racist doesn't make him so, which is kind of his point.

    3. That the mayor of the world's greatest city is an ignorant pygmy of the calibre of that man is quite a damning indictment, isn't it?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    You literally said Burney hates Muslims. Now you say you only claimed he hates Islam.

    You’re welcome to adjust your position to the much more acceptable one you’re now claiming. But first you’ll have to apologise for the original smear.
    "I have only ever accused YOU of castigating Islam". The word YOU is significant here, in that I was talking to YOU.

    Yes, I did suggest that Burney had 'paraded his hatred of muslims' on here. We had a long conversation where both of you went to great lengths to explain that you merely hated their beliefs, which were totally separate from their 'race' and were entirely optional on their part. You dont hate the people at all- oh no, you are more or less great supporters. No matter that you count them, calculate their breeding rates and consider the volume as an existential threat to Britain. none of this matters- it is merely a theological dispute, nothing more. The Labour Party, on the other hand, are vile and vicious racists. I understand all of this now.

    THe other important thing to stress here was that this was in the context of my comparison between your islamophobia and the Labour Party's anti-semitism. Therefore important to note that the conversation did not start bymethrowing accusations of bigotry but by me responding to them.

    However, for the record, yes I do consider your views on Islam to be a form of bigotry. By any dictionary definition, it is.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    1. Whether or not the truth bores you, Hitler was a National Socialist who described himself as a socialist and behaved like a socialist.

    2. Just calling him a racist doesn't make him so, which is kind of his point.

    3. That the mayor of the world's greatest city is an ignorant pygmy of the calibre of that man is quite a damning indictment, isn't it?
    1. Hitler called himself a lot of things. Are we now defining him in his own words?

    2. THat isnt what he said.

    3. No, it isnt. His predecessor was a buffoon who could barely tie his own laces without instructions. Am I expected to believe that civilisation hinges on his accent?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    1. Hitler called himself a lot of things. Are we now defining him in his own words?

    2. THat isnt what he said.

    3. No, it isnt. His predecessor was a buffoon who could barely tie his own laces without instructions. Am I expected to believe that civilisation hinges on his accent?
    1. Hitler has no right to self-define? What if he had self-defined as a woman, would you misgender him, you monster?

    2. Semantics.

    3. You are referring to our esteemed foreign secretary. A little respect wouldn't go amiss.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    1. Hitler has no right to self-define? What if he had self-defined as a woman, would you misgender him, you monster?

    2. Semantics.

    3. You are referring to our esteemed foreign secretary. A little respect wouldn't go amiss.
    1. It is nonsensical, not to mention extremely offensive, to equate modern left wing people with Hitler. As it is with pretty much anyone. It is also facile and childish. Any view of National Socialism that considers it left wing is the work of an idiot.

    2. I thought we had established that I was anti-semantic, like the rest of the Labour Party.

    3. My respect is ex officio. It does not extend to the incumbent.
    Last edited by Peter; 04-17-2018 at 03:46 PM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda View Post
    To be honest, anyone in any doubts to his men'elness just needs to read this sentence: "in which he discussed preferring his solo work to his former band"
    He was wrong about the acid attacks too. That scumbag who went away for 20 odd years for throwing acid about in an east end nightclub was very definitely, a whitey.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    "I have only ever accused YOU of castigating Islam". The word YOU is significant here, in that I was talking to YOU.

    Yes, I did suggest that Burney had 'paraded his hatred of muslims' on here. We had a long conversation where both of you went to great lengths to explain that you merely hated their beliefs, which were totally separate from their 'race' and were entirely optional on their part. You dont hate the people at all- oh no, you are more or less great supporters. No matter that you count them, calculate their breeding rates and consider the volume as an existential threat to Britain. none of this matters- it is merely a theological dispute, nothing more. The Labour Party, on the other hand, are vile and vicious racists. I understand all of this now.

    THe other important thing to stress here was that this was in the context of my comparison between your islamophobia and the Labour Party's anti-semitism. Therefore important to note that the conversation did not start bymethrowing accusations of bigotry but by me responding to them.

    However, for the record, yes I do consider your views on Islam to be a form of bigotry. By any dictionary definition, it is.
    I think there has been a communication breakdown here. Frankly, you seem totally confused. I don’t believe Burney or I have ever said we hate the BELIEFS of ALL Muslims.

    There are millions upon millions of Muslims around the world who follow a benign form of Islam. And while I may consider them any number of things such as naïve, foolish or deluded, they give me no reason at all to hate them.

    Alas, we also know there to be millions upon millions of Muslims around the world who believe in the less benign tenets of Islam. And it is these Muslims that I have no problem hating – both them individually AND their beliefs - and I consider this no more controversial than saying I hate Nazis as individuals and that I hate their beliefs too.

    In fact, saying I hate Islam is in no way substantively different to saying I hate Nazism. And just as saying I hate Nazism is very different to saying I hate people who believe in tenets of Nazism such as economic self-sufficiency and a strong national identity, saying I hate Islam is also different to saying I hate Muslims who believe in the benign tenets of Islam.

    But as soon as I learn that someone endorses the less benign tenets of Islam, then I have an entirely legitimate reason to hate them. Just as if I find out that someone who believes in the values of a strong national identity also believes in a form of Social Darwinism, then I have legitimate reason to hate them too.

    And if Nazis were breeding like rabbits, proliferating in number, growing in power and influence, and had killed more than 400 innocent people on European streets in a handful of years, I’d be obsessively counting and calculating them too.

    Do you actually disagree with any of this? And given how I've laid out my position, would you really describe my views on Islam to be "bigoted"?

    And if so, are you able to explain why you wouldn't also say someone who hates Nazis is also bigoted?
    Last edited by Monty92; 04-18-2018 at 06:52 AM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I think there has been a communication breakdown here. Frankly, you seem totally confused. I don’t believe Burney or I have ever said we hate the BELIEFS of ALL Muslims.

    There are millions upon millions of Muslims around the world who follow a benign form of Islam. And while I may consider them any number of things such as naïve, foolish or deluded, they give me no reason at all to hate them.

    Alas, we also know there to be millions upon millions of Muslims around the world who believe in the less benign tenets of Islam. And it is these Muslims that I have no problem hating – both them individually AND their beliefs - and I consider this no more controversial than saying I hate Nazis as individuals and that I hate their beliefs too.

    In fact, saying I hate Islam is in no way substantively different to saying I hate Nazism. And just as saying I hate Nazism is very different to saying I hate people who believe in tenets of Nazism such as economic self-sufficiency and a strong national identity, saying I hate Islam is also different to saying I hate Muslims who believe in the benign tenets of Islam.

    But as soon as I learn that someone endorses the less benign tenets of Islam, then I have an entirely legitimate reason to hate them. Just as if I find out that someone who believes in the values of a strong national identity also believes in a form of Social Darwinism, then I have legitimate reason to hate them too.

    And if Nazis were breeding like rabbits, proliferating in number, growing in power and influence, and had killed more than 400 innocent people on European streets in a handful of years, I’d be obsessively counting and calculating them too.

    Do you actually disagree with any of this? And given how I've laid out my position, would you really describe my views on Islam to be "bigoted"?

    And if so, are you able to explain why you wouldn't also say someone who hates Nazis is also bigoted?

    There has indeed been a major breakdown of communication. Throughout our conversations about thisyoudescribedanyattempt on my part to distinguish between interpretations of Islam as a 'straw man' or a red herring. My point from the start was that Ibelievedthat the problem was with a strict, medieval interpretation of Islam which was (a) relatively recent in its popularity and (b) a clear response to the Muslim diaspora through the western world. THis was a significant aspect of my argument that attempting to blame the entire religion was wrong and ignored other hugely significant factors. You never, at any point, allowed this argument.

    Now you are distinguishing between the benign and the non-benign and accepting that ISlam can, in many,many instances, be harmless

    If you do indeed accept this, then we can leave it there. Well, lets face it, it is going to keep coming up again in different forms but we can certainly leave this specific part of the conversation.

    I dont think anybody finds the radical fundamental form of Islam acceptable or appropriate, particularly in Britain.

    Based on the above, I hereby formally withdraw my accusation of bigotry and I thank you for your time.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    There has indeed been a major breakdown of communication. Throughout our conversations about thisyoudescribedanyattempt on my part to distinguish between interpretations of Islam as a 'straw man' or a red herring. My point from the start was that Ibelievedthat the problem was with a strict, medieval interpretation of Islam which was (a) relatively recent in its popularity and (b) a clear response to the Muslim diaspora through the western world. THis was a significant aspect of my argument that attempting to blame the entire religion was wrong and ignored other hugely significant factors. You never, at any point, allowed this argument.

    Now you are distinguishing between the benign and the non-benign and accepting that ISlam can, in many,many instances, be harmless

    If you do indeed accept this, then we can leave it there. Well, lets face it, it is going to keep coming up again in different forms but we can certainly leave this specific part of the conversation.

    I dont think anybody finds the radical fundamental form of Islam acceptable or appropriate, particularly in Britain.

    Based on the above, I hereby formally withdraw my accusation of bigotry and I thank you for your time.
    Has the vowel thief become a space thief? Whereiscurlywhenyouneedhim?

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda View Post
    Has the vowel thief become a space thief? Whereiscurlywhenyouneedhim?
    THe space bar on my iPad keyboard doesn't respond well. It is a ****, in other words.

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