Andrew Neil and Squeaking Little Shít Owen Jones should settle this like men.

[Peter]

Just bread? Roti canai? Sort yourself out, son.

Have you been to that canteen place in KL, up the hill just past the Ptronas towers. Open all night....they do an outstanding roti for less than a quid.

I shall be back there in June.

[Burney]

Traditionally, the left hated Israel because of american involvement, particularly in funding their military. THis was a legitimate prejudice as,lets face it, lefties hate the yanks and, in the post war years, for good and well established reasons.

It seems to have changed but I agree with you- I dont really see why a british labour movement should be so pre-occupied with an issue that doesnt concern 99% of british people and is not even a particularly significant part of british foreign policy.

Of course you won't hear an anti-semitic joke - it isn't that kind of anti-semitism. The left also has a long history of associating Jews with capitalism. Turn up a stone on twitter and you'll find a Corbynista spouting Rothschild conspiracy sh1t. This isn't a new phenomenon. Orwell was pointing it out in the 30s. However, the need to pander to large Islamic communities in certain constituencies has undoubtedly made Labour more tolerant of it of late and given cover to the latent anti-semitism of longer-standing leftists.

[Monty92]

You have said on here that you would love to have ensured that no muslims ever came to britain. Had anyone said that about jews would you have considered it anti-semitic?

The two are directly comparable. We cant trade beliefs and say 'I only hate him cos of his religion, not cos of his race'.

Prejudice is prejudice and if we can separate one entity from the individual we can separate the other. Judaism is after all a faith.

That's b*ollocks. If I said I didn't want the UK to take in a single unvetted Muslim "refugee" in case one of them is a Jihadi, that isn't prejudice against Muslims in the slightest. It's entirely legitimate and reasonable pragmatism that has absolutely nothing to do with hating individuals because of their religion. Every Muslim who holds beliefs compatible with western values prevented from entering under my preferred policy would have my absolute sympathy.

I'm assuming this same pragmatism was behind Burney's comment.

[Sir C]

Have you been to that canteen place in KL, up the hill just past the Ptronas towers. Open all night....they do an outstanding roti for less than a quid.

I shall be back there in June.

I have not. With God's help and a little luck I shall be spared another visit to KL. It's not my favourite town.

[Burney]

You have said on here that you would love to have ensured that no muslims ever came to britain. Had anyone said that about jews would you have considered it anti-semitic?

The two are directly comparable. We cant trade beliefs and say 'I only hate him cos of his religion, not cos of his race'.

Prejudice is prejudice and if we can separate one entity from the individual we can separate the other. Judaism is after all a faith.

I didn't say 'love', I said that if it were possible to press a button that meant that the decades of muslim immigration to this country had never taken place, I would press it, since the consequences of it have on balance been largely negative (indeed, the only significant positive I can find is in food). I absolutely believe that those negatives are a consequence of the belief systems and cultures engendered by the Islamic faith rather than being a racial trait. If you consider that racist, then you'd have to say that any prejudice against Christian fundamentalists is also racism.

Again, it's about beliefs, not about race.

[Peter]

That's b*ollocks. If I said I didn't want the UK to take in a single unvetted Muslim "refugee" in case one of them is a Jihadi, that isn't prejudice against Muslims in the slightest. It's entirely legitimate and reasonable pragmatism that has absolutely nothing to do with hating individuals because of their religion. Every Muslim who holds beliefs compatible with western values prevented from entering under my preferred policy would have my absolute sympathy.

I'm assuming this same pragmatism was behind Burney's comment.

If you had said that I would not have said what I did. So that's a comment I didnt make in response to a comment you didnt make.

I agree, total *******s.

[Monty92]

If you had said that I would not have said what I did. So that's a comment I didnt make in response to a comment you didnt make.

I agree, total *******s.

The point is, your original comparison was flawed. If someone could put up a convincing argument for why allowing Jews to come to the UK has been largely negative, then we might have reason to believe they weren't motivated by racism and inherent dislike of Jews as individuals.

Making the same convincing argument for Muslims is a piece of píss.

[Burney]

The point is, your original comparison was flawed. If someone could put up a convincing argument for why allowing Jews to come to the UK has been largely negative, then we might have reason to believe they weren't motivated by racism and inherent dislike of Jews as individuals.

Making the same convincing argument for Muslims is a piece of píss.

Indeed. On the one hand we have: Self-ghettoised communities leading to massive social divides; an undermining of the education and legal systems; systemic discrimination against women and gays; a massive rise in anti-semitism; cousin marriage; honour killings; mass sexual exploitation of white, working class girls; FGM, radicalisation; electoral fraud; restriction of free speech through threat and home-grown terrorism.

On the other hand we have curry and a variety of kebabs.

Tricky one.

[Peter]

The point is, your original comparison was flawed. If someone could put up a convincing argument for why allowing Jews to come to the UK has been largely negative, then we might have reason to believe they weren't motivated by racism and inherent dislike of Jews as individuals.

Making the same convincing argument for Muslims is a piece of píss.

Not really. The point is whether you think it is fine to discriminate against someone on religious grounds but not on the grounds of race. It doesn't really matter whether you think you can justify this prejudice in your own mind or show evidence.

They carry similar penalties before the law and both are illegal. You can go on until you are blue in the face about the negative impact of Muslims but it doesn't change the fact that you are discriminating against somebody on the basis of their beliefs. Your reasons for doing so are your own but the act itself remains illegal.

One could argue that the number of shootings and stabbing in parts of London are largely down to black people. Would this make disliking black people ok?

Nowhere does this translate into the hatred of individuals. One can dislike the jewish community (control of the media etc) but still maintain that your jewish bloke on the street is ok. Or are we suggesting that the Labour Party activelydislike all individual jewish people?

[Burney]

Not really. The point is whether you think it is fine to discriminate against someone on religious grounds but not on the grounds of race. It doesn't really matter whether you think you can justify this prejudice in your own mind or show evidence.

They carry similar penalties before the law and both are illegal. You can go on until you are blue in the face about the negative impact of Muslims but it doesn't change the fact that you are discriminating against somebody on the basis of their beliefs. Your reasons for doing so are your own but the act itself remains illegal.

One could argue that the number of shootings and stabbing in parts of London are largely down to black people. Would this make disliking black people ok?

Nowhere does this translate into the hatred of individuals. One can dislike the jewish community (control of the media etc) but still maintain that your jewish bloke on the street is ok. Or are we suggesting that the Labour Party activelydislike all individual jewish people?

Is it fine to discriminate against someone based on what they say, believe and openly espouse as being indisputably true?

Yes. Yes, it is. In fact, it's how we judge people all the time.

Does that have anything to do with race? No. There are plenty of white muslims. Their beliefs are fvcking idiotic as well.