Firstly, you are wrong, I have never said that religion alone is responsible for all negative behaviour by Muslims. I could talk to you plenty about any number of contributing factors including the justifications of choice for most leftist apologists for acts of terrorism such as western foreign policy and mental illness (both of which I think can often be factors to some degree).
Secondly,I didn't say you accused us of being racist (how could I, when Islam is not a race?). But your accusation of us being inherently discriminatory towards Muslims as individuals is not much better and no more justified.
As I said, there is nothing intrinsically discriminatory about stating that things would have been better if no Muslim had ever come to the UK and it is only our ingrained sensitivity about matters of religion and race that makes it sound contentious to our ears (and i agree it certainly sounds contentious).
And no, I would certainly never casually say it to a Muslim because that would make me a giant c[U]nt. What I should be able to do, however, is say it in the spirit of open conversation without someone like you accusing me of judging every individual Muslim by the same standards as I do the worst kind of Muslim.
Let's be honest, if you had evidence that one Muslim refugee out of a million was going to murder you or your family, and had the choice of whether to let them all in, or none of them, you would soon find yourself being "discriminatory" too.
Last edited by Monty92; 04-13-2018 at 01:43 PM.
I do apologise. when you said it was unhelpful that people like me bandyabout words like racism I thought you were suggesting I was, you know, bandying about words like racism. I must have misunderstood that- silly old me.
Nor have I said that either of you hate every muslim. My original point was a contrast between B's horror at anti-semitism and how he squared that with his own 'reservations' regarding muslims. I do take issue with the attempt to distance yourselves from actual muslim people by claiming it is merely the belief you dont like. As evidenced elsewhere in the thread, this is not the case. You yourself say above that it is the behaviours you despise and your belief that Islam is the cause of them. Above you also say it isn't the only cause (but curiously the only one you ever seem to attack).
I have never used the word inherent with regards to either of you. I have simply accused you of being anti-muslim. As you know, we agree entirely that the behaviours are unacceptable. Where we disagree is in our willingness to castigate the entire religion.
you yourself said recently that you didn't think the Labour Party was genuinely anti-semitic, down to actually hating individual jews. B doesnt seem to agree, hence this entire thread. For the record, I find it rather offensive and absurd that one form of prejudice is horrific and personal, the other thoroughly justified, acceptable and restricted to a mere belief system.
Since when has anti-semitism been about hating individual Jews? 6 Million Jews didn't get chucked in the ovens because everyone hated Mrs Rothstein, ffs! 'The Jews' are an idea to anti-semites: a malign force that operates hidden levers of power and cause us all to pander to them. The modern left has adopted the sophistry of 'zionist', of course, but it's the same damn thing. And, as I said at the beginning of all this, the fact that the left gets so angry about Israel and not other examples of international injustice is nothing to do with feeling extra-sorry for the Palestinians and everything to do with the fact that Israel is a Jewish state.
I was referring to actually hating jewish people, rather than the idea or notion of 'the jew' as you put it. I wasn't attempting to blame the Labour Party's stance on somebody not liking Woody Allen.
Is it possible to be opposed the to the state of Israel without being anti-semitic? Or is this mere sophistry?
Think about what it actually means to be ‘opposed to the state of Israel’. To oppose the very existence of a defensible homeland for a people who in living memory have suffered the deliberate near-extermination of their race from the European continent. That should give you your answer.