Ofcourse the worst thing about the Russki sabre rattling

[Burney]

As I pointed out last week, the 'mentalists' on this occasion simply want to see some evidence. A lot of these mentalists are more usually described as such because their wild conspiracy theories lack evidence. All rather ironic.

and these mentalists continue to be called mentalists even long after the wild, ludicrous claims turn out to be true- fantasist nonsense like child abuse and underage sex involving the BBC and politicians, that kind of 'madness'.......

In this particular case the sheer sloppiness of the action would tend to raise questions in one's mindas to whether the Russian state were really, fully responsible for this. If we are to believe that they do it all the time then the expectation wouldusually be that they would be better at it than this. THis transgresses the one cardinal rule of assassination- that the target must die, at all costs. He is still alive..... worst assassination ever!

Given that this stuff has essentially reduced these poor people to braindead vegetables, I think their ‘survival’ is purely nominal.

It doesn’t take a great deal of investigation to acquaint yourself with the murderous nature of the Putin regime. What I find curious about those who cry so loudly for ‘evidence’ of this is why they are so keen to ignore the evidence in front of them?

[Peter]

Given that this stuff has essentially reduced these poor people to braindead vegetables, I think their ‘survival’ is purely nominal.

It doesn’t take a great deal of investigation to acquaint yourself with the murderous nature of the Putin regime. What I find curious about those who cry so loudly for ‘evidence’ of this is why they are so keen to ignore the evidence in front of them?

I am not crying for evidence. We have been through this. We will never see evidence, whether the government have it or not.

I am just saying it is not 'mental' to suggest that there may be doubt in the absence of evidence. This is a fundamental principle of the 'science' that so many of you cherish so highly and that you used to denounce the notion that the substance might not be russian.

[Burney]

I am not crying for evidence. We have been through this. We will never see evidence, whether the government have it or not.

I am just saying it is not 'mental' to suggest that there may be doubt in the absence of evidence. This is a fundamental principle of the 'science' that so many of you cherish so highly and that you used to denounce the notion that the substance might not be russian.

As you rightly say, in a situation such as this, one cannot have conclusive evidence - and everyone knows it. Thus, it is valid to question the motives of those who are calling for it in the knowledge it will never be forthcoming. Almost like they're trying to throw up a smokescreen.

Occam's Razor is why most sane people are concluding this is Russia's handiwork. Russian means, motives and opportunity - allied with Russia's extensive previous when it comes to murdering its dissidents at home and abroad. Throw in the complete absence of a credible counter-narrative and Vlad's your uncle.

Everything else belongs in the crazy bin.

[eastgermanautos]

I am not crying for evidence. We have been through this. We will never see evidence, whether the government have it or not.

I am just saying it is not 'mental' to suggest that there may be doubt in the absence of evidence. This is a fundamental principle of the 'science' that so many of you cherish so highly and that you used to denounce the notion that the substance might not be russian.

But, dude, how much evidence do you need? They've perpetrated numerous aggressive acts. They're the overwhelmingly likely culprits. Did you forget about Ukraine and all that other stuff? They shot down that damn passenger plane. Do they have to come up to you and personally grab the french fries off your plate?

[Burney]

But, dude, how much evidence do you need? They've perpetrated numerous aggressive acts. They're the overwhelmingly likely culprits. Did you forget about Ukraine and all that other stuff? They shot down that damn passenger plane. Do they have to come up to you and personally grab the french fries off your plate?

One can throw pretty much anything into doubt by ignoring or undermining overwhelming existing evidence and constantly demanding more. It's how holocaust deniers work*.

*For the record, I am not calling Peter a holocaust denier - even though he is in the Labour Party.

[Peter]

As you rightly say, in a situation such as this, one cannot have conclusive evidence - and everyone knows it. Thus, it is valid to question the motives of those who are calling for it in the knowledge it will never be forthcoming. Almost like they're trying to throw up a smokescreen.

Occam's Razor is why most sane people are concluding this is Russia's handiwork. Russian means, motives and opportunity - allied with Russia's extensive previous when it comes to murdering its dissidents at home and abroad. Throw in the complete absence of a credible counter-narrative and Vlad's your uncle.

Everything else belongs in the crazy bin.

I think the reasonable ground for dispute is between direct action from the Russian state versus random act by group with ties to Russian interests.

Both are worrying but in slightly different ways. THe sloppiness of the operation makes me seriously question whether this was a routine state-sponsored poisoning. THey are better than this!

[Peter]

One can throw pretty much anything into doubt by ignoring or undermining overwhelming existing evidence and constantly demanding more. It's how holocaust deniers work*.

*For the record, I am not calling Peter a holocaust denier - even though he is in the Labour Party.

I am not a holocaust denier, for the record. Whilst in Krakow I was determined to visit Auschwitz but I refused to go there by train as it was a bit too ****ing real. We missed the bus (much like Hitler, in fact).

[Sir C]

I am not a holocaust denier, for the record. Whilst in Krakow I was determined to visit Auschwitz but I refused to go there by train as it was a bit too ****ing real. We missed the bus (much like Hitler, in fact).

I don't think they make you go in a cattle truck any more, p

[Peter]

But, dude, how much evidence do you need? They've perpetrated numerous aggressive acts. They're the overwhelmingly likely culprits. Did you forget about Ukraine and all that other stuff? They shot down that damn passenger plane. Do they have to come up to you and personally grab the french fries off your plate?

I dont need any evidence. I accept that this stuff happens, that this is how intelligence services operate. I think we are owed a private apology for the mess they caused over this particular case but other than that I am not fussed.

Its the mess of it that has our government acting like muppets. They are outraged at the public nature of this operation and are acting how they think they have to- sabre rattling, as above. It is silly posturing that I refuse to take a seriously. All part of the game.

If you are going to come out with public statements about how it was definitely Putin what did it, don't be surprised if people question the absence of any genuine evidence. While I accept that evidence generally remains private, for similar reasons so do these diplomatic exchanges.

[Peter]

I don't think they make you go in a cattle truck any more, p

Even so....its too ****ingmuch.

THe tower as the train enters Auschwitz.....I see that tower everywhere- university buildings, even my local Tesco. Am I the only person that looks at it and immediately thinks of Auschwitz?