All this shít being lost about the BBC allegedly photoshopping Our Jeremy

[Sir C]

:

You won't be laughing when you're despatched to Our gulag for displaying reactionary and revanchist tendencies, p.

[Burney]

I think PSRB makes a good point though; for a great many people, communism isn't automatically associated with evil any more.

The cultural Marxists won.

Western civilisation was brought down by Ben Elton.

I don't think communism ever was associated with evil in this country. Pre-war it was fashionable, during the war it was a gallant ally and post war it was widely espoused despite the fact we were engaged in a Cold War with it. Indeed, this country was far more left-wing for most of the time we were fighting the Cold War than it became when we no longer were.

[Peter]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'd like you to be right, but I'm pretty convinced the perception that Corbyn is some kind of dangerous ideologue is dead in the water. In fact the sad reality is that it simply never gained any traction and when pushed is now basically ignored, in whatever form it comes.

It was always the wrong way to go. The attack on him should always have been an innocent but incredibly naive man who has no conception of the broader world of politics. You then hint that he is backed by some rather more sinister forces (which is kind of true).

[Peter]

I don't think communism ever was associated with evil in this country. Pre-war it was fashionable, during the war it was a gallant ally and post war it was widely espoused despite the fact we were engaged in a Cold War with it. Indeed, this country was far more left-wing for most of the time we were fighting the Cold War than it became when we no longer were.

The debt of gratitude to the Red Army certainly cast a long shadow over our parents' generation. As an ideology, it defeated a far greater evil in fascism. And you are right, before the war the Labour Party was never in a huge hurry to distance itself from the Soviet Union.

Its an evil to the Yanks because it challenges their rather spurious notion of 'freedom'. I dont think Britain has ever really been quite sure what to make of Russia.

[Monty92]

It was always the wrong way to go. The attack on him should always have been an innocent but incredibly naive man who has no conception of the broader world of politics. You then hint that he is backed by some rather more sinister forces (which is kind of true).

Perhaps, although there is a credible counter-argument to what we're saying which is that if it wasn't for protest votes against Brexit, Corbyn would have been wiped out at the last GE and all of the media attacks against him would have been hailed as highly effective.

[Peter]

You won't be laughing when you're despatched to Our gulag for displaying reactionary and revanchist tendencies, p.

I am sure I will cope somehow.

[Burney]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'd like you to be right, but I'm pretty convinced the perception that Corbyn is some kind of dangerous ideologue is dead in the water. In fact the sad reality is that it simply never gained any traction and when pushed is now basically ignored, in whatever form it comes.

Oddly enough, I think it's gaining traction. Last week's performance was so egregious that it seems even to have leaked through to the polls.

Also, I know it's repeated all the time, but do always bear in mind that, for the polls to be where they are at the moment is utterly disastrous for Labour.

[Peter]

Perhaps, although there is a credible counter-argument to what we're saying which is that if it wasn't for the Brexit protest votes, Corbyn would have been wiped out at the last GE and all of the media attacks against him would have been hailed as highly effective.

A scruffy argument but certainly a factor. I am not even sure I would call it a Brexit protest vote. The aftermath of the referendum saw a considerable rebalancing in voting behaviour as UKIP voters did not in every case return to their fold. It remains to be seen whether that was a protest or a long term shift in behaviour.

As I have said before, the Conservatives are very worried. In three elections following a global collapse presided over by the Labour Party, and following 13 years out of power, they have managed one tiny majority- and even that depended on a promise of a referendum. Traditional patterns would have seen them walk the 2010 and 2015 elections. I sense something bigger than just Brexit.

[Monty92]

Oddly enough, I think it's gaining traction. Last week's performance was so egregious that it seems even to have leaked through to the polls.

Also, I know it's repeated all the time, but do always bear in mind that, for the polls to be where they are at the moment is utterly disastrous for Labour.

Yes, although an economic downturn after Brexit would surely - unquestionably - result in a Labour government in 2022, shirley?

[Burney]

Perhaps, although there is a credible counter-argument to what we're saying which is that if it wasn't for protest votes against Brexit, Corbyn would have been wiped out at the last GE and all of the media attacks against him would have been hailed as highly effective.

The protest vote aspect of 2017 - in addition to a truly woeful Tory non-campaign - is widely underestimated.

For many, Brexit was the tories' 'fault' and those people - rather stupidly - saw voting for a Eurosceptic Labour leadership as the best form of punishing them for it. I suspect the folly of this has now started to dawn on many and it won't happen again.