Yesterday's match was very sad.

[SWv2]

Well, I think you can judge it by looking at your financial status compared to others. You can also judge it by the performance of your side relative to the quality in your squad.

We are not in kicking distance of City, they are light years ahead of us in the League. We are between 8 and 12 points behind four other sides who are certainly proving to be better than us. Two of those are Liverpool and Spurs who have smaller turnovers than we do and smaller wage bills. We are underperforming compared to those. THere is nothing about the status of the three clubs that suggests the other two should be performing better than us. Considerably better at present.

As a club I think it is clear we are under performing. Asa squad, I am witnessing performances from individuals that are nowhere near where they should be. As a unit we are all over the place in defence and midfield. THere is surely no question in anybody's mind that this group of players is capable of playing better than this???

Yet we won more last season than both of those teams combined have won in the past 5 years.

I’m just not sure the argument that we are underperforming is correct. I think what is wrong is our expectation as fans is wrong.

I don’t even contemplate us winning the league any more when we kick off in May, I did in the past. I know where our place is and I’m relatively cool with that.

It’s the level of performance that grinds my ****. Performance from very good players but players who appear to have little or no leadership.

[World's End Stella]

Monty's gone very quiet during all of this kerfuffle. No stoic last minute defence? perhaps the bestowing of cancer on the few that called the old tit out years a go ?

You've not been around enough recently, 7s. Monty's new view is that he recognized some time ago that Wenger was under-performing and therefore has been right all along.

The years preceding that when he wished cancer on anyone who dared question the SFC have been conveniently forgotten.

[Peter]

Yet we won more last season than both of those teams combined have won in the past 5 years.

I’m just not sure the argument that we are underperforming is correct. I think what is wrong is our expectation as fans is wrong.

I don’t even contemplate us winning the league any more when we kick off in May, I did in the past. I know where our place is and I’m relatively cool with that.

It’s the level of performance that grinds my ****. Performance from very good players but players who appear to have little or no leadership.

And that doesnt qualify as under performing??

Notice I made precisely no mention of winning the league. We are so far away from that it isnt even worth thinking about. Our goal is now to challenge (not accomplish, but challenge) for distant fourth because right now that is a long way off and looks dead in the water with a third of the season gone.

I think fourth is about where we should be- there or thereabouts. Bit higher in a good year, bit beneath in a bad one.

However, even if we were challenging for fourth right now it wouldnt change the fact that this group of players looks horribly disorganised and is performing poorly. THat alone strongly suggests that we can and should be doing better. That really should be enough to prompt change of some sort.

[SWv2]

And that doesnt qualify as under performing??

Notice I made precisely no mention of winning the league. We are so far away from that it isnt even worth thinking about. Our goal is now to challenge (not accomplish, but challenge) for distant fourth because right now that is a long way off and looks dead in the water with a third of the season gone.

I think fourth is about where we should be- there or thereabouts. Bit higher in a good year, bit beneath in a bad one.

However, even if we were challenging for fourth right now it wouldnt change the fact that this group of players looks horribly disorganised and is performing poorly. THat alone strongly suggests that we can and should be doing better. That really should be enough to prompt change of some sort.

I agree with you.

[Ash]

Monty's gone very quiet during all of this kerfuffle. No stoic last minute defence? perhaps the bestowing of cancer on the few that called the old tit out years a go ?

That the time is right for him to go now does not mean that the time was right then. Not that I have any wish to once again rehearse the old arguments. At least now there is no great schism, as all but a few are agreed that it is time for change. Had he gone when we were still playing decent football the divide would have carried on into the new regime.

[Peter]

I agree with you.

Sorry- who do you agree with??

[Peter]

That the time is right for him to go now does not mean that the time was right then. Not that I have any wish to once again rehearse the old arguments. At least now there is no great schism, as all but a few are agreed that it is time for change. Had he gone when we were still playing decent football the divide would have carried on into the new regime.

Indeed, if the time is right for him to go now then it suggests that the time was NOT right then. If then was the right time then now is way past when he should have gone and not in fact the right time at all but long past it.

[SWv2]

Sorry- who do you agree with??

You. Pedro. The big Pete. El Peter.

Rover driver.

[IUFG]

Indeed, if the time is right for him to go now then it suggests that the time was NOT right then. If then was the right time then now is way past when he should have gone and not in fact the right time at all but long past it.

Thanks for clearing that up, p

[Ash]

And that doesnt qualify as under performing??

Notice I made precisely no mention of winning the league. We are so far away from that it isnt even worth thinking about. Our goal is now to challenge (not accomplish, but challenge) for distant fourth because right now that is a long way off and looks dead in the water with a third of the season gone.

I think fourth is about where we should be- there or thereabouts. Bit higher in a good year, bit beneath in a bad one.

However, even if we were challenging for fourth right now it wouldnt change the fact that this group of players looks horribly disorganised and is performing poorly. THat alone strongly suggests that we can and should be doing better. That really should be enough to prompt change of some sort.

I find it a bit weird that people are pining for fourth now that it is so distant, and saying it is where we should be, when being fourth at the time was never considered good enough, and the fact that other clubs had more money was just a weak excuse for not winning, or regularly challenging for, the league.