So no more F1 Grid Girls and no scantily clad, fit birds leading the darts chaps out

[Burney]

Have they? Have they become politically engaged? I'm not persuaded. I see no evidence of any fightback.

You don't see the Leave vote as evidence of a fightback? I'd say it was the single biggest spoke in the wheel that the 'there is no alternative'/'progressive' movement has seen in this country. That's why they're so cross.

[redgunamo]

It is a view that a Marxist should agree with though. Understanding the world in terms of the relationship between social classes is what Historical Materialism is about, after all.

And yes, this is a case of a bien pensent middle class dictating to a lower class. Funnily enough, this is something that the 'right' (be they real conservatives or mere Tory-voters) is often better at spotting these days than the fake left, who have absolutely no clue about class any more, or any self-awareness about their new role as loyal and fervant supporters of the establishment, ruling class.

In short, when I were a nipper the 'right' were in charge and the 'left' were the rebels. Now it looks more the other way round imo.

Perhaps it's more about breeding than class?

[Sir C]

You don't see the Leave vote as evidence of a fightback? I'd say it was the single biggest spoke in the wheel that the 'there is no alternative'/'progressive' movement has seen in this country. That's why they're so cross.

Hmm, a proportion of leave voters were far from politically engaged, to be fair. You know how it's dreadful how the Left sneers at white van man for being ignorant? Well, it's both dreadful and true.

I fear that the vast majority of conservatives who are capable of cogent thought have actually surrendered, beaten by 70 years of socialism.

[World's End Stella]

You don't see the Leave vote as evidence of a fightback? I'd say it was the single biggest spoke in the wheel that the 'there is no alternative'/'progressive' movement has seen in this country. That's why they're so cross.

That's only true if by 'traditional conservatives' you mean 'old people' because as has been pointed out to you many times, we only voted leave because of the 55+ vote so any narrative which suggests that it was part of a movement of some kind which spans all age groups is simply incorrect.

[Burney]

That's only true if by 'traditional conservatives' you mean 'old people' because as has been pointed out to you many times, we only voted leave because of the 55+ vote so any narrative which suggests that it was part of a movement of some kind which spans all age groups is simply incorrect.

Just because a view predominates in one age group, it doesn't follow that it doesn't span all age groups, you silly fellow.

[World's End Stella]

Just because a view predominates in one age group, it doesn't follow that it doesn't span all age groups, you silly fellow.

Well, you referred to the Leave vote as specific evidence of this 'fightback'. So what's the evidence of this fightback in people < 55, because the Leave vote was not it.

Which was my point.

[Burney]

Hmm, a proportion of leave voters were far from politically engaged, to be fair. You know how it's dreadful how the Left sneers at white van man for being ignorant? Well, it's both dreadful and true.

I fear that the vast majority of conservatives who are capable of cogent thought have actually surrendered, beaten by 70 years of socialism.

There was a large proportion of both sides that weren't particularly politically engaged. So what? It doesn't alter the fact that a lot of Leave voters were politically engaged. Nobody was suggesting that this trend was universal.

And I don't think conservatives have surrendered. They've just gone underground to avoid being called racist and screamed at by lefties.

[Burney]

Well, you referred to the Leave vote as specific evidence of this 'fightback'. So what's the evidence of this fightback in people < 55, because the Leave vote was not it.

Which was my point.

It's a movement because sufficient numbers of the brainwashed post-1975 generations have retained sufficient independence of mind to stick two fingers up to their masters rather than meekly doing as they're told. By doing so, those people shaped the outcome of the referendum just as much as the over-55s.

[Sir C]

There was a large proportion of both sides that weren't particularly politically engaged. So what? It doesn't alter the fact that a lot of Leave voters were politically engaged. Nobody was suggesting that this trend was universal.

And I don't think conservatives have surrendered. They've just gone underground to avoid being called racist and screamed at by lefties.

But that's what I mean; by going underground to avoid having falafel crumbs spat into our faces by screeching harridans, we have surrendered.

The triumph of the Left is in sight. Mark my words, all it needs is enough division within the Conservative party to envoke a vote of no confidence, a general election, and *bosh* it will be all over. They will have absolute control, cultural, moral and political, and they will never, ever surrender it.

[Burney]

But that's what I mean; by going underground to avoid having falafel crumbs spat into our faces by screeching harridans, we have surrendered.

The triumph of the Left is in sight. Mark my words, all it needs is enough division within the Conservative party to envoke a vote of no confidence, a general election, and *bosh* it will be all over. They will have absolute control, cultural, moral and political, and they will never, ever surrender it.

That assumes the country would be stupid enough to vote Corbyn in. I'm not convinced that will happen.