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Thread: Deso Dogg gone

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    I'll take the secular, non-sectarian, arab socialists and christian conservative Rooskies over the Wahhabi headchoppers and their army of the worst thugs and criminals in the world, thanks. Most Syrians support Assad. Less keen on Iran tbf, but gimme a Shia over a Sunni any day.
    Fair enough. That's your choice. However, you are essentially admitting that you're prepared to overlook horrific behaviours by all of those parties because you see that as the best way to play Realpolitik.

    In other words: no-one gets to play the white hat here. There are no good guys and everyone's dirty as hell. Given which, moral posturing about us, the US or Israel being in bed with Saudi just won't stand up, I'm afraid.

  2. #22
    What I’ve never understood is the “it’s all about oil” refrain, the insinuation being that the motive for wanting to control oil is purely financial greed, ignoring how it is massively important in shaping geopolitical power structures and therefore the security of the world.





    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Fair enough. That's your choice. However, you are essentially admitting that you're prepared to overlook horrific behaviours by all of those parties because you see that as the best way to play Realpolitik.

    In other words: no-one gets to play the white hat here. There are no good guys and everyone's dirty as hell. Given which, moral posturing about us, the US or Israel being in bed with Saudi just won't stand up, I'm afraid.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    In geopolitics, everyone plays the best hand they can. No-one said it was nice.
    How can killing >400,000 people in an attempt to set up a barbarian caliphate, making 7-11 million people homeless, with 2 million coming to Europe be the best hand available? All for what, exactly? Just to set the ground to do the same thing to Iran as was done to Iraq (estimated over a million dead), and to Libya (a once affluent population reduced to poverty and slavery) or Ukraine (worse off than before the overthrow of the elected govt) or Kosovo (worse off than within Yugoslavia)?

    All these stupid wars and interventions and regime changes are complete disasters for everyone except the MIC that profit from them, their mercs, and their presstitutes who finally sell some papers and cheerleaders who get a hard on from destroying countries.



    Right, I need to do some work

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    What I’ve never understood is the “it’s all about oil” refrain, as if oil wasn’t massively important in shaping geopolitical power structures.
    Yes. In a world that runs on oil, securing an oil supply is a really good reason to make alliances or go to war.

    Mind you, I've been pointing this out to anti-war types since the first Gulf War, but they still seem to think 'No Blood For Oil' constitutes a good argument against interventions in the Middle East.

  5. #25
    Weren’t the Iraqi forces under Saddam camped out on the Saudi border at one point ready to seize its oil supply? That would have had a good outcome.



    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Yes. In a world that runs on oil, securing an oil supply is a really good reason to make alliances or go to war.

    Mind you, I've been pointing this out to anti-war types since the first Gulf War, but they still seem to think 'No Blood For Oil' constitutes a good argument against interventions in the Middle East.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Fair enough. That's your choice. However, you are essentially admitting that you're prepared to overlook horrific behaviours by all of those parties because you see that as the best way to play Realpolitik.

    In other words: no-one gets to play the white hat here. There are no good guys and everyone's dirty as hell. Given which, moral posturing about us, the US or Israel being in bed with Saudi just won't stand up, I'm afraid.
    Most of the anti-Assad atrocity porn comes from unverified accounts from actors like the so-called "white helmets" who are basically Al-Qaeda propaganda assets working with the likes of M16 and John McCain with their false flag chemical weapon attacks and "barrel bomb" bull****.

    Difference between Aleppo and Mosul or Raqqa? The latter had FAR more civilian casualties as are inevitable in urban warfare. Except they weren't reported as such, while the relatively FEWER casualties in Aleppo were constantly touted as a 'war crime' every day because it was Russian airpower not US. The same propaganda BS as happens in every single one of these wars, from the same people that brought us WMD in Iraq.

    And breathe.

    God, I miss Snin for moments like this.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    How can killing >400,000 people in an attempt to set up a barbarian caliphate, making 7-11 million people homeless, with 2 million coming to Europe be the best hand available? All for what, exactly? Just to set the ground to do the same thing to Iran as was done to Iraq (estimated over a million dead), and to Libya (a once affluent population reduced to poverty and slavery) or Ukraine (worse off than before the overthrow of the elected govt) or Kosovo (worse off than within Yugoslavia)?

    All these stupid wars and interventions and regime changes are complete disasters for everyone except the MIC that profit from them, their mercs, and their presstitutes who finally sell some papers and cheerleaders who get a hard on from destroying countries.



    Right, I need to do some work
    This is grossly simplistic. ISIS arose not because the US went into Iraq, but because it listened to people like you, bottled it and left, creating a huge power vacuum. Libya - like Syria - was run by a brutal dictator whose populace rebelled against him - the West simply reacted to it. As for Ukraine, the Russians have tried to operate it as a puppet state since 1991, even poisoning its future PM at one point because he wasn't pro-Russian, tried to prevent it signing international agreements (as independent nations are entitled to do) and eventually invaded it in an undeniable act of nakedly imperialist aggression on the basis of a completely unconstitutional referendum. And, in case you didn't notice, the Serbs were murdering thousands of civilians in Kosovo - pretty barbaric, too, I'd have said.

    You want to stop looking at everything through your red-tinted glasses, a. Sometimes the Russians are the bad guys.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Most of the anti-Assad atrocity porn comes from unverified accounts from actors like the so-called "white helmets" who are basically Al-Qaeda propaganda assets working with the likes of M16 and John McCain with their false flag chemical weapon attacks and "barrel bomb" bull****.

    Difference between Aleppo and Mosul or Raqqa? The latter had FAR more civilian casualties as are inevitable in urban warfare. Except they weren't reported as such, while the relatively FEWER casualties in Aleppo were constantly touted as a 'war crime' every day because it was Russian airpower not US. The same propaganda BS as happens in every single one of these wars, from the same people that brought us WMD in Iraq.

    And breathe.

    God, I miss Snin for moments like this.
    So you're not even trying to argue that there haven't been atrocities by the side you support? Atrocities you are keen to downplay and minimise?

    You're only supporting my point that you are arguing the difference between shït and shíte.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Weren’t the Iraqi forces under Saddam camped out on the Saudi border at one point ready to seize its oil supply? That would have had a good outcome.
    Yes. Especially as they burnt the Kuwaiti oilfields in their retreat. Imagine if they'd done the same in Saudi.

    It's all about the lesser evil. Just because you choose what you believe to be the lesser evil doesn't mean you don't know it's evil.

  10. #30
    What I find weird is the Faustian pact between Saudi Arabia’s wahhabist base and the distinctly unislamic (by conservative standards) Royal Family who by all accounts spend most of their time ****ing whores in their Knightsbridge townhouses rather than following the teachings of the Koran.

    Presumably yer average wahhabiist Saudi considers the family to be no less immoral than yer average western Kuffir. Yet they are happy to keep them in power presumably in exchange for the family continuing to fund the spreading of wahhabi ideology around the world.

    Does this not stick in their craw a touch?



    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Yes. Especially as they burnt the Kuwaiti oilfields in their retreat. Imagine if they'd done the same in Saudi.

    It's all about the lesser evil. Just because you choose what you believe to be the lesser evil doesn't mean you don't know it's evil.
    Last edited by Monty92; 01-19-2018 at 03:01 PM.

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