Carol service in prod church review.

[Monty92]

How about contentment and peace of mind? Imagine that everyone on this lovely planet of ours experienced both of these on a daily basis precisely because of their belief in God. Then add all that peace and contentment for every human being that has ever lived and you'll come up with something far more valuable than anything delivered by man in the name of progress.

But this is based on the assumption that the comfort and solitude gained from a belief in God cannot be replicated - improved, even - by anything else. I dispute this.

[World's End Stella]

But this is based on the assumption that the comfort and solitude gained from a belief in God cannot be replicated - improved, even - by anything else. I dispute this.

The overwhelming majority of this peace and contentment comes from their belief that at the moment of death you will not cease to exist for all eternity.

You'll struggle to come up with an alternative, Monty. Unless you're referring to crack?

[Monty92]

The overwhelming majority of this peace and contentment comes from their belief that at the moment of death you will not cease to exist for all eternity.

You'll struggle to come up with an alternative, Monty. Unless you're referring to crack?

But you can't measure the extent to which this ignorance reduces the quality of their life as they live it. So, if you accept there is nothing after death, you may well (and should be encouraged to) see more value in what you have here and now, since it is all you have and will ever have. What better motive to pursue your interests, dreams, and to expand your mind? And yes, taking crack could certainly be part of that - though I would personally suggest psychadelics.

In short, religiosity erodes the incentive to maximise your potential. Or to be more specific, it erodes the potential that can blossom from a lifetime of persuing truth.

[World's End Stella]

you may well (and should be encouraged to) see more value in what you have here and now, since it is all you have and will ever have. What better motive to pursue your interests, dreams, and to expand your mind?

They aren't mutually exclusive, Monty. Many people do both.

[Monty92]

They aren't mutually exclusive, Monty. Many people do both.

I know that. But it is religiosity that provides a ready-made excuse not to. Indeed, arguably its central message is to resist many of the paths that can lead to the kind of fulfillment and human progress that I refer to. Non-religiosity can also have its downsides - a sense of nihilism, lack of meaning and purpose, etc - but as a concept it is value free. You can take what you want from it, without any of the bad ideas or outright lies that religion imposes on you.

[Burney]

I would concede that the term 'spiritual' comes heavily loaded with religious connotations, and to that extent is certainly inadequate or imperfect.

But it only takes a small broadening of our traditional concept of spirituality to encompass matters such as the mysteries of consciousness that have absolutely nothing to do with God.

Believing in such matters is not a smokescreen - it's an inevitable and unavoidable consequence of 5 minutes of opening your mind.

Sorry, but wishy-washy phrases such as ‘the mysteries of consciousness’ set alarm bells ringing. What mysteries? Our ‘consciousness’ is simply a series of biochemical reactions to which we imbue undue significance. If you’re that interested in it, I suggest the answers will be found in science, not ‘spirituality’.

[Ash]

The overwhelming majority of this peace and contentment comes from their belief that at the moment of death you will not cease to exist for all eternity.

Surely this depends on the verdict going your way, for those who believe in an upstairs-downstairs afterlife.

As one that doesn't, the prospect of ceasing to exist doesn't bother me at all personally, as long as pain isn't involved in the process. I'm far more concerned about the distress, inconvenience and possible mess left behind for others at such a cessation.

[Burney]

Surely this depends on the verdict going your way, for those who believe in an upstairs-downstairs afterlife.

As one that doesn't, the prospect of ceasing to exist doesn't bother me at all personally, as long as pain isn't involved in the process. I'm far more concerned about the distress, inconvenience and possible mess left behind for others at such a cessation.

I think some people would prefer an eternity of existence in hell to simply ceasing to exist.

[Sir C]

Sorry, but wishy-washy phrases such as ‘the mysteries of consciousness’ set alarm bells ringing. What mysteries? Our ‘consciousness’ is simply a series of biochemical reactions to which we imbue undue significance. If you’re that interested in it, I suggest the answers will be found in science, not ‘spirituality’.

"There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

A mild cynicism towards scientific dogma would serve you well. See also: 'climate change'.

[Monty92]

Sorry, but wishy-washy phrases such as ‘the mysteries of consciousness’ set alarm bells ringing. What mysteries? Our ‘consciousness’ is simply a series of biochemical reactions to which we imbue undue significance. If you’re that interested in it, I suggest the answers will be found in science, not ‘spirituality’.

Wishy-washy phrases like "the mysteries of conciousness" are only toxic by association, because they've so often been utilised by wishy-washy idiots like Deepak Chopra. But that doesn't necessarily render them inherently useless.

What about the 'nature' of conciousness? Would you object to that too? You take a psychadelic drug to change the biochemistry of your brain and to get closer to understanding the nature of consciousness. In this sense, spirituality can often rely on science, yet you flippantly treat them as mutually incompatible.