Click here for Arsenal FC news and reports

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 94

Thread: There are lot of people this morning saying that one of Jamie Bulger's killers being

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Exactly. I remember kids at that age and the idea that you could lose track of them for more than a few seconds without going into panic mode seems unthinkable to me.

    However, I'm sure her conscience has punished the poor woman enough for the last 24 years, so I'm not going to kick her.
    On a related note, people generally speaking are weird when it comes to ethics. If someone moderately drink drives and gets away with it, they'll be considered little more than naughty scamps. yet if someone moderately drink drives and kills a kid, the opprobrium goes through the roof. Why? The 'crimes' were identical on a moral level.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    I agree about the desire for personal justice, but that is personal. Frankly, if someone takes personal vengeance for the murder of a child and kills the perpetrator, I for one would generally applaud them and hope they would be treated leniently by the judicial system. That, as you say, is a very natural right of justice that exists outside the law.

    However, once you forego that option and leave it up to the state to enact justice on your behalf, you can basically fùck off as far as I'm concerned. At that point, your feelings no longer have anything to do with anything. It's just cold, dispassionate law.
    Precisely. The worst road to go down is to confuse justice with vengeance. In this we separate justice in society from justice in the individual. We also separate justice (the notion) from law (the process).

    The greater argument for capital punishment, or at least the most logical, is the notion of deterrence. Unfortunately, this doesnt work, particularly at the level of crime where the greatest support for capital punishment exists- treason, drug lords, etc. Those involved in these actions live their lives under a death sentence in their professions. A government rope isnt going to scare them.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SWv2 View Post
    As a punishment it does fit the crime on occasion all the same. Your female sense of squeamishness does not come into it as you don’t have to stand and watch it, a public beheading as such.

    Fúck them, ****s at the bar ordering coffee and then paying by card.
    People who stand in a longish queue at a coffee shop and then order 4 flat white, 3 lattes and 4 Americanos.

    :rage:

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I don't know anything about Bulger's parents, other than the fact that his mum was distracted when he got snatched, which does seem rather unforgivable. I mean, you can sometimes lose track of the movements of a 4 or 5-year-old, but a two-year-old? Nah, you *always* have one eye on a two-year-old when out in public.
    Yes of course you do what about leaving them in a taxi while you dash back to the house???
    Northern Monkey ... who can't upload a bleeding Avatar

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    On a related note, people generally speaking are weird when it comes to ethics. If someone moderately drink drives and gets away with it, they'll be considered little more than naughty scamps. yet if someone moderately drink drives and kills a kid, the opprobrium goes through the roof. Why? The 'crimes' were identical on a moral level.
    Yes, I've always felt dubious about the principle of scaling punishment on the basis of its consequences. It's always seemed to punish bad luck to an unfair degree. I remember that chap who fell asleep at the wheel a few years ago and somehow managed to cause the Selby train crash. He got five years. If he'd given into sleep a few minutes earlier, there's every chance he might just have veered onto the hard shoulder and gone up the bank. Result? A few points on his licence, maybe. The disparity between those punishments for essentially the same offence has always seemed arbitrary and unfair to me.

  6. #26
    Your first paragraph there is almost verbatim what my younger more liberal self frequently argued whenever the death penalty was discussed. Given it is nigh impossible for most people to take their revenge I figure bollócks, let's just hang the ****s.

    And none of this squeamish lethal injection nonsense. The grim placement of the noose; the terrifying pause before the pull of the lever; the audible snap of the neck and the occasional decapitation when the hangman has miscalculated the drop distance. An execution should be dramatic b.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    On a related note, people generally speaking are weird when it comes to ethics. If someone moderately drink drives and gets away with it, they'll be considered little more than naughty scamps. yet if someone moderately drink drives and kills a kid, the opprobrium goes through the roof. Why? The 'crimes' were identical on a moral level.
    Because we measure both outcome and intent. Hence attempted murder is a lesser offence than murder.

    In a moral sense you are right, there is little difference. You may drive home completely ****faced but without incident. Another night you may tip slightly over the limit and kill a child through no real fault of your own.

    The former is a far worse offence but the latter involves a dead kid.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Precisely. The worst road to go down is to confuse justice with vengeance. In this we separate justice in society from justice in the individual. We also separate justice (the notion) from law (the process).

    The greater argument for capital punishment, or at least the most logical, is the notion of deterrence. Unfortunately, this doesnt work, particularly at the level of crime where the greatest support for capital punishment exists- treason, drug lords, etc. Those involved in these actions live their lives under a death sentence in their professions. A government rope isnt going to scare them.

    Even its advocates don't bother with the deterrence argument anymore. In 18th Century London, most people who were hanged or committed capital crimes had witnessed executions themselves. Did it deter them? Did it fück as like. America is the only civilised society left with the death penalty and I don't notice their murder rates dropping significantly.

    For me, the better arguments are recidivism (an awful lot of killers get out and kill again) and finance. Why should the taxpayer be burdened with the millions it costs to keep a murderer alive for decades when a quick trip through the trapdoor would settle their hash cheaply and quickly?
    Last edited by Burney; 11-23-2017 at 11:19 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Yes, I've always felt dubious about the principle of scaling punishment on the basis of its consequences. It's always seemed to punish bad luck to an unfair degree. I remember that chap who fell asleep at the wheel a few years ago and somehow managed to cause the Selby train crash. He got five years. If he'd given into sleep a few minutes earlier, there's every chance he might just have veered onto the hard shoulder and gone up the bank. Result? A few points on his licence, maybe. The disparity between those punishments for essentially the same offence has always seemed arbitrary and unfair to me.
    So do you think the chap should have got nothing more than a few points on his license, or that people who crash onto the hard shoulder but kill no-one should be treated as harshly as if they'd caused a train crash?

    That's where it gets tricky, huh?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokster View Post
    Yes of course you do what about leaving them in a taxi while you dash back to the house???
    Come now, p. Whoever heard of an asian taxi driver doing anything untoward with young childr....oh.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •