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Thread: So there seems to be some debate about how much we should pay as part of Brexit

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Let me just get this clear in my head. So, our government (the responsible, hard headed, flag waving patriots who put britain first and dont stand for any nonsense from this euro cretins) are going to try to negotiate a reduction on a bill that we have precisely no legal obligation to pay?

    That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Cant we just find a half decent lawyer? I know a guy....
    I'm not sure that upsetting the other party is a great tactic for the rest of the Brexit negotiations. We could do with a concession or two being thrown our way.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I'm not sure that upsetting the other party is a great tactic for the rest of the Brexit negotiations. We could do with a concession or two being thrown our way.
    Yes. Increasingly, however, it's becoming apparent that the EU Commission are ideologues rather than pragmatists. This makes negotiating sensibly with them rather difficult.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I'm not sure that upsetting the other party is a great tactic for the rest of the Brexit negotiations. We could do with a concession or two being thrown our way.
    They're already upset, Rich. I think Peter is on the mark on this one. **** 'em.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Yes. Increasingly, however, it's becoming apparent that the EU Commission are ideologues rather than pragmatists. This makes negotiating sensibly with them rather difficult.
    They're going to make a bloody example of us, B

    My other half is going to have to go and live in Amsterdam if things don't work out.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    They're already upset, Rich. I think Peter is on the mark on this one. **** 'em.
    On one level, I'd love to see us walk away while flicking v-signs at them. However, one can see that this would precipitate an all-out shítstorm for both sides that would be in neither side's interests.

    However, one starts to suspect that a break that's as acrimonious as humanly possible is actually what the Commission wants, so I wouldn't rule out such an outcome.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    They're going to make a bloody example of us, B

    My other half is going to have to go and live in Amsterdam if things don't work out.
    If that's what they want, then have at it. EU member states have as much to lose by such an outcome as we do. To push for such an outcome would be to put the ideological purity of the EU project ahead of the interests of its member states and I wonder how forgiving the people of those member states would be of such as stance once the results started to bite.
    Last edited by Burney; 09-18-2017 at 09:35 AM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    They're already upset, Rich. I think Peter is on the mark on this one. **** 'em.
    Quite. I dont think it is a particularly good negotiating tactic to be rubbishing them in public but it is the government's job. THat prize goof Johnson telling them to go whistle, etc.

    If we are going to do that in public we may as well do it in private. I cant see that we really want anything from them. Brexit means brexit (after all) so we are out, out, out. We are getting a trade deal either way and happy to leave without one so lets just get on with it. As fr as the rights of our citizens abroad are concerned we hold the cards as we can just threaten to be beastly to the MILLIONS of EU citizens here claiming benefits, stealing our women etc.

    Tell them to **** off. Its what the public wants, after all.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    If that's what they want, then have at it. EU member states have as much to lose by such an outcome as we do. To push for such an outcome would be to put the ideological purity of the EU project ahead of the interests of its member states and I wonder how forgiving the people of those member states would be of such as stance once the results started to bite.
    But the EU Project, by definition, cares little for the notion of 'member states'. States are merely local agents, subordinate to the union and its interests. This is the real reason you wanted out.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    On one level, I'd love to see us walk away while flicking v-signs at them. However, one can see that this would precipitate an all-out shítstorm for both sides that would be in neither side's interests.

    However, one starts to suspect that a break that's as acrimonious as humanly possible is actually what the Commission wants, so I wouldn't rule out such an outcome.
    The thought does occur that the 'divorce bill' and the EU's insistence on being bloody minded are crucial instruments for our own government. Let's face it, once we are out the usual excuses of blaming the EU have a shelf life. This is the only transition Westminster really cares about. In the decade after we leave they need an excuse to explain why the economy is ****e, why we are still overrrun by immigrants, why we havent spent any money on the NHS. THe divorce bill is crucial in this.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    But the EU Project, by definition, cares little for the notion of 'member states'. States are merely local agents, subordinate to the union and its interests. This is the real reason you wanted out.
    Of course. However, it has only succeeded as far as it has by obscuring that fact as much as possible and by being able to point to material benefits for the citizens in return for losing their rights of self-determination. For the citizens of the EU to see the ideology play out red in tooth and claw in a way that hurts them might be a somewhat different proposition imo.

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