C'mon out MONTY!!! We want to talk football with you

[Burney]

Depends. If Sanchez goes and it turns out he really was the sand in the underwear (I'm not saying that is the case) the boys might start playing like a team again (as they miraculously did when the back three was introduced) and some kind of hope could creep back. Won't stop the contractual headaches, of course.

Yes, but as soon as a run ends, all the underlying tensions come straight back to the surface. The problems will remain endemic as long as AW stays.

[Sir C]

Every bad result is going to cause last seasons regrettable events to come to the fore.

We now have 2 players who have made it very clear they want to leave, one more publicly than the other admittedly, so every poor performance, individual error will be jumped on as a sign of a lack of commitment. We really have no option but to sell (as indeed many have called for all summer) yet we leave ourselves with just over 24 hours to replace.

And yet for so many years we were told, and some of us lapped up, the intangible claim of Arsenal being a club that did things correctly etc.

It almost appears we stumble along from one mess to another (yet amazingly remain relatively very successful).

Woaaah there, big fella! This idea of the Arsenal being a club which does things 'the right way' is nothing to do with success in the transfer market, or contract negotiations. It's a question of values, of manners, respect and politeness. It's summed up by the flowers on the boardroom table in the colours of the opposition on matchdays, the way that all staff members are treated with the same degree of respect, all that 'Arsenal family' business which one may or may not dismiss as nonsense, but exists all the same.

'The right way' is a question of moral good, not contractural efficiency.

[World's End Stella]

I think I must have said 300 times on Awimb over the past few years that Wenger leaving may well be the best way forward. I've merely scoffed at the idea that this is a no-brainer and my position on that hasn't changed at all.

Would it not be sensible to reserve judgement over just how catastrophic things are beyond three games and a still-open transfer window? Last season was looking pretty bad too, and that turned out ok-ish, didn't it?

So you didn't see anything in the Liverpool game concerning enough to merit analysis beyond 'it's only the third game, let's be patient'?

And our transfer window spending, assuming we sell Ox for the numbers being bandied about, will be about net zero, meanwhile some teams that finished ahead of us are spending 100mil+, and this is in no way surprising or concerning?

[Monty92]

Woaaah there, big fella! This idea of the Arsenal being a club which does things 'the right way' is nothing to do with success in the transfer market, or contract negotiations. It's a question of values, of manners, respect and politeness. It's summed up by the flowers on the boardroom table in the colours of the opposition on matchdays, the way that all staff members are treated with the same degree of respect, all that 'Arsenal family' business which one may or may not dismiss as nonsense, but exists all the same.

'The right way' is a question of moral good, not contractural efficiency.

But surely a club could fall short of its values, of manners, respect and politeness when it comes contract negotiations?

[Peter]

I think I must have said 300 times on Awimb over the past few years that Wenger leaving may well be the best way forward. I've merely scoffed at the idea that this is a no-brainer and my position on that hasn't changed at all.

Would it not be sensible to reserve judgement over just how catastrophic things are beyond three games and a still-open transfer window? Last season was looking pretty bad too, and that turned out ok-ish, didn't it?

Last season was a bit of a disaster and saw some of our worst performances in years. It seemed like we were useless for months, all sorts going on.....and yet, we finished with 74 points which is 4 more than the year before and slightly above our average return.

Funny old game etc....anyway, the point is wenger is a useless **** and should be sacked. Everyone knows that.

[Peter]

Woaaah there, big fella! This idea of the Arsenal being a club which does things 'the right way' is nothing to do with success in the transfer market, or contract negotiations. It's a question of values, of manners, respect and politeness. It's summed up by the flowers on the boardroom table in the colours of the opposition on matchdays, the way that all staff members are treated with the same degree of respect, all that 'Arsenal family' business which one may or may not dismiss as nonsense, but exists all the same.

'The right way' is a question of moral good, not contractural efficiency.

Do they still do all that, post Hill Wood?

[Monty92]

So you didn't see anything in the Liverpool game concerning enough to merit analysis beyond 'it's only the third game, let's be patient'?

And our transfer window spending, assuming we sell Ox for the numbers being bandied about, will be about net zero, meanwhile some teams that finished ahead of us are spending 100mil+, and this is in no way surprising or concerning?

I didn't see the Liverpool game - I was catching crabs with my son off Herne Bay pier. But by all accounts, I certainly wouldn't argue there was nothing to merit further analysis beyond three games.

I don't see why our net spend should matter at all. If we're happy with who we've signed, and happy with who we've sold, and we end up with a + net spend, then that is no reason to complain in and of itself.

Of course, if you're not happy with who we've bought and sold, then that's a different matter.

[Burney]

I didn't see the Liverpool game - I was catching crabs with my son off Herne Bay pier. But by all accounts, I certainly wouldn't argue there was nothing to merit further analysis beyond three games.

I don't see why our net spend should matter at all. If we're happy with who we've signed, and happy with who we've sold, and you've still got a + net spend, then that is no reason to complain in and of itself.

Of course, if you're not happy with who we've bought and sold, then that's a different matter.

Did you catch any good ones worth eating?

[Peter]

So you didn't see anything in the Liverpool game concerning enough to merit analysis beyond 'it's only the third game, let's be patient'?

And our transfer window spending, assuming we sell Ox for the numbers being bandied about, will be about net zero, meanwhile some teams that finished ahead of us are spending 100mil+, and this is in no way surprising or concerning?

Concerning or not, it is in no way new. Although I didnt watch the Liverpool game I bet it was no worse than others over the years. It cant have been any worse than the one where we were 4-0 down after 20 minutes. That one looked like the entire team was hungover and had just got out of bed.

Is any of this new/surprising/worse than the last ten years? I dont think it is.

[Monty92]

Concerning or not, it is in no way new. Although I didnt watch the Liverpool game I bet it was no worse than others over the years. It cant have been any worse than the one where we were 4-0 down after 20 minutes. That one looked like the entire team was hungover and had just got out of bed.

Is any of this new/surprising/worse than the last ten years? I dont think it is.

There are many other clubs who have been perpetually unsuccessful for ten years or more, who have regularly changed their manager, and whose fans will often tell you that "nothing's changed" during that time.