Google memo fella gone :-(

[redgunamo]

I know what you're getting at.

But I just think that the decline of religion took place without anyone making any contingencies for what would replace it for the majority of humans who are psychologically weak and need something simplistic and comforting to give their lives meaning.

And so it ended up being replaced by the fundamentalist religion of progressivism.

"Religion" is doing better than ever, I thought? #Islam

Anyway, it has merely been replaced by money, and latterly "work", which is far more dangerous, imo. But that's what the psychologically weak who need something simplistic and comforting to give their lives meaning have chosen instead. "Science" gave us the pill and the rest will be history.

[Peter]

Science can very much be an extremely healthy guide to morality, you dumbo.

It can also be a useful tool. Its fundamental weakness in terms of social guidance is that the process rests on answering a question- somebody has to ask the question.

It also presents at least as many moral quandaries than it solves.

And why the insults, M? Seems rather harsh....

[Burney]

Perhaps our best hope is the Allans. What happens when the inevitable culture clash takes place between gay/women hating Muzzies and progressives? Until now, as we know, the two sides have formed an unholy alliance, but that is purely a marriage of convenience to further each other's causes by shutting down opposing voices.

But what happens when 30, 40, 50 per cent of the country think that Gay Pride is an abomination? Could it be then that it all comes crashing down?

This is the problem. This is the sort of shít that gives these people ammunition. It's easy for a Salafist preacher to point at the absurdities of the gender wars and say how corrupt, weak, stupid and decadent we are - because in that case it's largely true. We have made ourselves absurd and ridiculous and we have no apparent will to stop doing so.

[redgunamo]

No. Of course not. However, our laws ought to be evidence-based where possible. Pandering to a social agenda that is simply not believed in by the vast majority of people for fear of being called illiberal is simply bizarre, though.

Yes, but who wants to risk their job, or even their career, over it. Which is why I always say, take the money and run; do not hang around for a single moment longer than you have to.

[Peter]

No. Of course not. However, our laws ought to be evidence-based where possible. Pandering to a social agenda that is simply not believed in by the vast majority of people for fear of being called illiberal is simply bizarre, though.

which is where you run into the difference between science and humanity. Science runs on laws, society runs (or should run) on perceptions of justice. Science gives you results but it does not distinguish between right and wrong in anything other than a factual outcome. It provides no moral context, indeed it is deliberately removed from it. (rather, it claims to be. In practice it isn't).

[Monty92]

This is the problem. This is the sort of shít that gives these people ammunition. It's easy for a Salafist preacher to point at the absurdities of the gender wars and say how corrupt, weak, stupid and decadent we are - because in that case it's largely true. We have made ourselves absurd and ridiculous and we have no apparent will to stop doing so.

But what happens when their strength in numbers is such that they can, say, force a Gay Pride event to be cancelled because it is culturally insensitive to those of the Muslim faith? What do the progressives do then?

[Monty92]

It can also be a useful tool. Its fundamental weakness in terms of social guidance is that the process rests on answering a question- somebody has to ask the question.

It also presents at least as many moral quandaries than it solves.

And why the insults, M? Seems rather harsh....

I'm not apologising

[Peter]

I'm not apologising

Nor should you, and it wouldn't do any good. The safe space has been compromised. Its too late.

I am not going to have to take the rest of the day off work because of YOU.

[redgunamo]

This is the problem. This is the sort of shít that gives these people ammunition. It's easy for a Salafist preacher to point at the absurdities of the gender wars and say how corrupt, weak, stupid and decadent we are - because in that case it's largely true. We have made ourselves absurd and ridiculous and we have no apparent will to stop doing so.

Apropos some other matter entirely, you mentioned communism the other week and it occurs to me that actually, our capitalism has exactly the same end in mind. Namely, the suppression of the "traditional" family, that thing that gives a man the will to stop a man doing stupid things. People with no attachments are far more maleable and available for work, aren't they.

Progressive Europeans argue that while having children is one thing, their upbringing is a different matter entirely and rightly ought to be the sole responsibility of the corporate state. So, why, and how, should individuals care about right and wrong when responsibility for the future, for the consequences, has been willingly, and wilfully, removed from them?

[Burney]

which is where you run into the difference between science and humanity. Science runs on laws, society runs (or should run) on perceptions of justice. Science gives you results but it does not distinguish between right and wrong in anything other than a factual outcome. It provides no moral context, indeed it is deliberately removed from it. (rather, it claims to be. In practice it isn't).

Yes, but the whole idea of the enlightenment was to move towards a more just and rational model of government. We appear to be abandoning that as an ideal, which worries me greatly, since the movement towards that end has been a central pillar of western democracy.