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Thread: So it seems our chums in the ever-democratic EU are threatening to suspend Poland's

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    That's like accusing the Tories of not being democratic because they insist MPs vote along party lines. If you want to be in the club, you need to be part of the club.
    You realise that Conservative MPs are elected by the people of this country to serve in the parliament of this country, do you?

    Sometimes I think that pokster's assault must have shifted the plates in your head mate.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    I do sometimes wonder why so few pro-EU types worry that Merkel ...
    Because that's their point, that's what they want.
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    That's like accusing the Tories of not being democratic because they insist MPs vote along party lines. If you want to be in the club, you need to be part of the club.
    That would have rather more validity had the EU not studiously ignored it when the previous, pro-EU Polish government undertook similar measures.

    Besides, it's the optics that are the real problem here. They are now being seen to be overtly interfering in the internal governance of a member country because they don't like its government's policies. This sort of naked attack on democratic sovereignty makes explicit to people just what an appalling shítshow the EU really is, which can only be good.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by redgunamo View Post
    Because that's their point, that's what they want.
    They want to be pushed around by Germany? Really?

    I'd always known such people were misguided, but I generally have assumed they were at least sincerely misguided. You are suggesting that they are actively treasonous.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Its not really like that at all though, is it?
    If the context is 'any time some body has to do something they don't want to it's un-democratic' then yes it is.

    I'm always amused when people criticise the EU for not being democratic. Because getting 28 different countries to act as a union and reap the benefits of that union while allowing them to vote on everything and opt out of anything they don't agree with would just be sooooo easy.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    You realise that Conservative MPs are elected by the people of this country to serve in the parliament of this country, do you?

    Sometimes I think that pokster's assault must have shifted the plates in your head mate.
    I'm afraid your point is just a really stupid one, Charles. Think harder next time.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    I'm afraid your point is just a really stupid one, Charles. Think harder next time.
    K! Will do.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    I do sometimes wonder why so few pro-EU types worry that Merkel took a unilateral decision about letting in millions of migrants to Germany and was then allowed to use the Commission to pressure fellow EU states into following suit. Did that sort of undue influence not set anyone else's alarm bells ringing?
    As an ardent Europhile, that was the one thing that completely outraged me. I had no way of even starting to justify it.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    If the context is 'any time some body has to do something they don't want to it's un-democratic' then yes it is.

    I'm always amused when people criticise the EU for not being democratic. Because getting 28 different countries to act as a union and reap the benefits of that union while allowing them to vote on everything and opt out of anything they don't agree with would just be sooooo easy.
    You appear to be suggesting that it is as democratic as it can afford to be. I would agree.

    People only complain about a lack of democracy when they don't like something. People are ****s.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    If the context is 'any time some body has to do something they don't want to it's un-democratic' then yes it is.

    I'm always amused when people criticise the EU for not being democratic. Because getting 28 different countries to act as a union and reap the benefits of that union while allowing them to vote on everything and opt out of anything they don't agree with would just be sooooo easy.
    Right. So you concede that it is undemocratic because it cannot be otherwise and function?

    That isn't a reason why it isn't undemocratic, it is simply a reason for it being so.

    Given which, you'll understand why those of us to whom the principles of democratic government actually matter had no alternative other than to vote Leave?

    Glad we've sorted that out.

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