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Thread: So it seems our chums in the ever-democratic EU are threatening to suspend Poland's

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult View Post
    As I've just said, I'm a Europhile, but the current EU has become effectively the Mitteleuropa customs union that Kaiser Wilhelm invisgased in 1914 just after the war had started when he thought Germany were about to win a quick victory.

    "Germany would create a Mitteleuropa economic association, ostensibly egalitarian but actually dominated by Germany. Members would include the new buffer states."

    That is what's basically happened, isn't it? I still want to stay in the EU and reform it from the inside, as the future is continental, no longer the C19th concept of modern nation states.

    And Germany never intended to use the EU to create the German dominated customs union that Wilhelm invisaged. But this has happened for various reasons. The econ power of Germany, the Euro and the crash, the fact that they have vastly lower real wage growth than every other OECD member, impoverishing the southern nations keeps the Euro far lower than a DM would be helping German exports etc etc.

    As with the refugees, Merkel can impose her will on other nations who have no way of voting Merkel out. She has the power, but with no accountability. Of course she has the put the interests of her voters first when they are in conflict with the interests of other EU/EZ countries.

    There needs to be political, fiscal union, especially for the EZ monetary union states.

    But why would Germany do that? Let the poor states vote what to do with German tax revenue? They won't. They have their cake and are eating it with the Euro helping German exports while stoping the South devaluing their way out of the crisis as GB did after the crash.

    We should stay in the EU and try to help force these reforms. But I can't justify Merkel telling other nations who can and can't come into their country from outside the EU when these nations have no way of voting her out. The 1914 September Programme has come to pass.
    History demonstrates that Europe can never be safe with a united Germany, I'm afraid. Reunification will prove to have been a disaster for Western Europe.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    So you're now suggesting the EU has brought all these benefits, are you? That's a rather grandiose claim, if I may say so. How have all those developed countries not in the EU managed, I wonder?
    Of course various things in life have got better. That has nothing to do, however, with membership of the Common Market/EEC/EC/EU, upon which over-55s made a judgement and - as I say - found it wanting.
    Consider life in Switzerland, with the famine and the plagues and that

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    The nonsensical bit is the idea that voting Leave would in some way allow a return to something like the dear old England of their childhood.

    Not to mention that that dear old England included rationing, massive debts, socialism far beyond what we have now, lower living standards, a hand out to the IMF, rampant racism, sh1t food and seriously bad clothes at various times.
    Yeah, but not THAT dear old England.

    Its more Rupert Brooke's England we are talking about. Well not we, I think its all *******s.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    History demonstrates that Europe can never be safe with a united Germany, I'm afraid. Reunification will prove to have been a disaster for Western Europe.
    Nonsense. Europe is perfectly safe. It has the EU.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Well, the rationing, massive debts and socialism were a direct result of sorting out Europe's shít, the lower living standards, racism, **** food and dubious fashion choices far from unique to the UK.

    You don't understand dear old England; you don't feel dear old England. That's fine, but please remember your position as a guest in our country and keep your foul views to yourself. Otherwise we will have to send pokster to relieve you of the burden of living. Thank you.
    I can assure you, Charles, that dear old England is still alive and well. I felt it from the day I arrived. It's why I stayed.

    Well, that and knocking up an Essex bird.

    And if you think that there is a sign that the empire is not well, having to send Pokster along as a sign of strength would have to be right up there.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Consider life in Switzerland, with the famine and the plagues and that
    Yes. And Australia. Until I read WES's post, I hadn't realised Mad Max was a documentary.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    So you're now suggesting the EU has brought all these benefits, are you? That's a rather grandiose claim, if I may say so. How have all those developed countries not in the EU managed, I wonder?
    Of course various things in life have got better. That has nothing to do, however, with membership of the Common Market/EEC/EC/EU, upon which over-55s made a judgement and - as I say - found it wanting.
    You see what I mean? You do get this, yet you claim to see no issue with Wenger declaring He built the Arsenal Football Club practically single-handedly.

    As I said, fascinating.
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    So you're now suggesting the EU has brought all these benefits, are you? That's a rather grandiose claim, if I may say so. How have all those developed countries not in the EU managed, I wonder?
    Of course various things in life have got better. That has nothing to do, however, with membership of the Common Market/EEC/EC/EU, upon which over-55s made a judgement and - as I say - found it wanting.
    You really do love logical leaps, Burney.

    No, I never said that. You said that over 55s decided they preferred life pre EU and that's why they voted Leave and that that is a powerful argument for Leave. I pointed out that by virtually every measurable standard life is better now, so that argument doesn't really hold. At no point did I credit the EU for those improvements.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Nonsense. Europe is perfectly safe. It has the EU.
    Yes, there is great strength in unification for Grossdeutschland.

    EU.jpg

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    You really do love logical leaps, Burney.

    No, I never said that. You said that over 55s decided they preferred life pre EU and that's why they voted Leave and that that is a powerful argument for Leave. I pointed out that by virtually every measurable standard life is better now, so that argument doesn't really hold. At no point did I credit the EU for those improvements.
    Given the context of my remarks, it should be abundantly clear that I was referring to those areas of life in which membership of the EU has had an influence. You were the one who artificially conflated that with a range of irrelevant sociological factors that are common to every developed country.

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