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Thread: Interesting way to spin this story, given the fact that the NHS comes second last in

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Yeah but too much of that gets into the whole 'preventative' thing, which is a slippery slope. Telling us how much we should be drinking (two pints a week max) and so on.
    There is a difference between good, lifelong health education and endless prissy hectoring. This country does a lot of the latter and búgger all of the former.

    For instance, a really good use of NHS funds would be to teach people to budget, choose healthy food and cook from an early age. Also, the provision of sporting facilities and equipment would help.

    That sort of thinking's a bit too joined-up for our mandarins, though. Much better to spend those billions on wagging your finger at those who are already past saving.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    There is a difference between good, lifelong health education and endless prissy hectoring. This country does a lot of the latter and búgger all of the former.

    For instance, a really good use of NHS funds would be to teach people to budget, choose healthy food and cook from an early age. Also, the provision of sporting facilities and equipment would help.

    That sort of thinking's a bit too joined-up for our mandarins, though. Much better to spend those billions on wagging your finger at those who are already past saving.
    The NHS don't have enough money to even do the health thing before they diversify into areas which could or should be covered off by other authorities such as Sports Councils or whatever.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SWv2 View Post
    The NHS don't have enough money to even do the health thing before they diversify into areas which could or should be covered off by other authorities such as Sports Councils or whatever.
    But it's exactly that sort of siloed thinking that's the problem, you see? If you take a holistic view of health and the factors that impact upon it, then effective prevention is surely within the remit of a health system?

    Besides, the NHS has fůck tonnes of money to spend on shīt like diversity officers, multi-faith chaplains and incredibly inefficient central purchasing practices that mean I can buy paracetamol 20 times cheaper at Tesco than it can be prescribed to me by the NHS.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    But it's exactly that sort of siloed thinking that's the problem, you see? If you take a holistic view of health and the factors that impact upon it, then effective prevention is surely within the remit of a health system?

    Besides, the NHS has fůck tonnes of money to spend on shīt like diversity officers, multi-faith chaplains and incredibly inefficient central purchasing practices that mean I can buy paracetamol 20 times cheaper at Tesco than it can be prescribed to me by the NHS.
    I would suggest you are then a part of what is a massive problem if you are wasting NHS time and resource with minor illnesses which can be fixed with some Paracetamol.


  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Yes. That league table is rather like a Premier League table that takes in a range of factors other than the outcomes of games, of course.

    Arsenal would always win in such a system.
    Its more a question of added value.

    For example, Leicester winning the league is arguably a greater achievement than City winning it.

    Also interesting that it comes close to the top on efficiency when we are constantly told that the problem is public sector bureaucracy rather than under funding or poor strategic planning.

    And Ash’s point that earlier ‘interventions’ and attempts to prescribe behaviours is something british people tend to hugely resent.

    Look at the gastropods lumbering their way around our supermarkets. You can’t force-feed these people salads.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SWv2 View Post
    I would suggest you are then a part of what is a massive problem if you are wasting NHS time and resource with minor illnesses which can be fixed with some Paracetamol.

    Not me, sunshine. I haven't seen a doctor in years. I merely use that as an example of the organisation's spendthrift inefficiency.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    But it's exactly that sort of siloed thinking that's the problem, you see? If you take a holistic view of health and the factors that impact upon it, then effective prevention is surely within the remit of a health system?

    Besides, the NHS has fůck tonnes of money to spend on shīt like diversity officers, multi-faith chaplains and incredibly inefficient central purchasing practices that mean I can buy paracetamol 20 times cheaper at Tesco than it can be prescribed to me by the NHS.
    Yet comes out 3rd for efficiency on your list. Go figure. Must be wrong, I suppose.

    I don't think it takes NHS money to provide education on diet and facilities for fitness. Those are catered for elsewhere, just not very well. Or at least, with little take up.

    Of course, we could take the punitive route. Taxes on high fat food and fast food that subsidises the cost of fruit and vegetables, greater subsidy on local authority gym membership.

    People are more likely to avoid a fine/tax than take advantage of a subsidy.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Not me, sunshine. I haven't seen a doctor in years. I merely use that as an example of the organisation's spendthrift inefficiency.
    Don't sunshine me pal.

    I am a fan of your NHS. While I have no doubt the organisation as a whole is pretty much fúcked and the overlords at the top are hugely incompetent the public facing staff in most hospitals are superb and do their best in trying circumstances.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Yet comes out 3rd for efficiency on your list. Go figure. Must be wrong, I suppose.

    I don't think it takes NHS money to provide education on diet and facilities for fitness. Those are catered for elsewhere, just not very well. Or at least, with little take up.

    Of course, we could take the punitive route. Taxes on high fat food and fast food that subsidises the cost of fruit and vegetables, greater subsidy on local authority gym membership.

    People are more likely to avoid a fine/tax than take advantage of a subsidy.
    To be honest, I don't really take that survey terribly seriously, since it is clearly designed to laud the most socialised forms of medicine and punish the least (i.e. the US). I just find it amusing that, even in such a survey, the NHS comes bottom in terms of healthcare outcomes.

    I would argue that hiving these things off into different, competing departments is exactly the problem, though. Other countries do educate their populace far better in terms of food and exercise and for me, those are health-related matters and should therefore fall under the remit of a true national health service. Otherwise, its 'prevention' strategies can only be reactive.
    Last edited by Burney; 07-14-2017 at 11:13 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    People are more likely to avoid a fine/tax than take advantage of a subsidy.
    You want to fine people now for not eating up their vegetables?

    Some of the most health-service intensive people I know actually have quite 'healthy' diets and lifestyles. I smoke, drink somewhat heavily, eat English breakfasts and even some #gasp ready-meals and have been the doctor's once in ten years and about twice in the ten years before that.

    So basically **** the food-snob policing of lifestyles. It's just another version of virtue/status signalling imo.

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