Labour's attempts to differentiate their position on Brexit and specifically

[World's End Stella]

Hard Brexit means leaving the EU. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market, customs union and ending freedom of movement.

Soft Brexit means not leaving the EU by not doing any of the above.

Labour campaigned on a manifesto that pledged to leave the single market, customs union and end freedom of movement. Therefore, if as you say, people voted Labour to avoid a hard Brexit, it seems a strange way of doing it. Unless, of course, they had a longer term and more calculated plan in mind.

You really think that Brexit negotiations are that binary? You don't think there might be an achievable middle ground between the two things you describe?

Think again.

[Peter]

[QUOTE=Monty92;4166468]Hard Brexit means leaving the EU. Leaving the EU means leaving the single market, customs union and ending freedom of movement.

Soft Brexit means not leaving the EU by not doing any of the above.



How can not leaving the EU be considered to be any kind of exit??

[Peter]

membership of the single market and customs union from the Tories through semantics is absolutely fúcking hilarious.

All the middle class people I know who voted Labour did so because a) they wanted a soft (i.e. 'no') Brexit and b) they felt Labour's policies were more likely to reduce inequality.

And yet,

1) Labour campaigned on a hard brexit manifesto which they are now committed to supporting, unless they are playing a very dangerous long game which would ultimately lose them much of the working class support they managed to claw back at the election.
2) Labour opposed the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, meaning that wealthy pensioners continue receiving money they have no need for
3) Labour opposed the Tory's social care policy which would have placed the burden of care costs on the very same elderly home owners who Labour supporters have always maintained have had it too good for too long at the expense of the younger generation
2) Labour proposed an abolition of tuition fees that has been shown would overwhelmingly negatively impact the poor and benefit the middle class

When are these middle class Labour voters gonna realise they voted for a party whose core policies they inherently disagree with?

New hobby, Sir?

1) Labour campaigned in support of the referendum outcome but with the insistence that parliament alone would make the final decision. This is NOT a semantic distinction from May's position.
2) Labour opposed the means testing because the process costs more to run that it could ever hope to save by denying the fuel allowance to some individuals. This is classic Tory policy- it looks responsible, it looks like it saves money, but it achieves nothing.
3) The Tory's social care policy was a disaster from start to finish, something they even recognise themselves. Seeing it as an attack on wealthy pensioners completely misses the point.
4) Possibly true, depending on how it is implemented. If accompanied by a return to capped numbers then yes, it constitutes a middle class subsidy just like the good old days. The sensible policy would be to return to the lower tuition fee. I would say they got that one wrong but then it won a lot of votes from young people.

[Monty92]

New hobby, Sir?

1) Labour campaigned in support of the referendum outcome but with the insistence that parliament alone would make the final decision. This is NOT a semantic distinction from May's position.
2) Labour opposed the means testing because the process costs more to run that it could ever hope to save by denying the fuel allowance to some individuals. This is classic Tory policy- it looks responsible, it looks like it saves money, but it achieves nothing.
3) The Tory's social care policy was a disaster from start to finish, something they even recognise themselves. Seeing it as an attack on wealthy pensioners completely misses the point.
4) Possibly true, depending on how it is implemented. If accompanied by a return to capped numbers then yes, it constitutes a middle class subsidy just like the good old days. The sensible policy would be to return to the lower tuition fee. I would say they got that one wrong but then it won a lot of votes from young people.

1) I was referring to Labour's attempts to differentiate themselves from the Tories in terms of the kind of deal they want and how they would attain it. And you know that.
2) But they did not oppose it on this basis. They opposed it as it was "an attack on pensioners"
3) See above
4) Thank you

[Peter]

1) I was referring to Labour's attempts to differentiate themselves from the Tories in terms of the kind of deal they want and how they would attain it. And you know that.
2) But they did not oppose it on this basis. They opposed it as it was "an attack on pensioners"
3) See above
4) Thank you

1) You said they campaigned on Hard Brexit. I just put you right and pointed out that there was more than just a semantic distinction. Neither side has a clear view of their own position.
2) Nope, they opposed it as 'uncosted and of extreme concern'. The concern being that the process would cost time and money and would inevitably delay payments to those who need it.
3) See my original response. Again, this was attacked for so many reasons. You are ascribing it to one specific in order to construst a narrative that enables you to laugh at the stupidity of others.