We are not talking about democracy, b. We are talking about a british general electionOriginally Posted by Burney
It isn't new, pointless or political, it's just very simple. If you vote in a manner which is inconsistent with an outcome, complaining about that outcome on message boards or in pubs leads you open to the counter point that 'you should have voted differently then, you have no one to blame but yourself'.The 'right' to complain.
This is a new, and pointless political concept imo.
Not that AWIMB would ever engage in such behavior, of course.
I'm not too sure we're disagreeing. In the scenario you describe 'their views' are that the PM or party in power need a rebuke and that transcends any specific policy agreement or disagreements and they should therefore vote accordingly. Conversely, if 'they' decide to vote for the PM they dislike because of the party's policies, 'they' then shouldn't complain about what a c*nt the PM is.
Which brings me back to the original point. Anyone who voted Labour shouldn't be moaning about the watering down of Brexit. It was pretty obvious that a minority government was going to dramatically increase the odds of that happening. Tough decision for anti-Tory Leave voters, I accept.
No, because FPTP renders votes meaningless for any party below second in a constituency. Also, I voted for a party whose leadership insisted they stand for leaving the single market, which in your language is a hard Brexit. On this basis over 80% voted for parties promising a hard Brexit, and both of those parties said the manner was settled before the election, which then proceded on the basis of all the other multiple issues on which GEs are fought.It isn't new, pointless or political, it's just very simple. If you vote in a manner which is inconsistent with an outcome, complaining about that outcome on message boards or in pubs leads you open to the counter point that 'you should have voted differently then, you have no one to blame but yourself'.
Not that AWIMB would ever engage in such behavior, of course.
What is really happening here is that the vast majority of the ruling class has been determined to scupper Breixt since the referendum and is using this election result as an excuse to flood the airwaves with sophistry of the kind that you are presenting here.
So now you are saying that a Labour voter who is a leaver should not have voted Labour (even though they most consistently represent their views on policy) because there was a possibility it could lead to a hung parliament (which NOBODY predicted) which would then water down Brexit even though the party that they voted for had explicitly said that they accepted the referendum vote and would let parliament agree the Brexit deal.
Despite all of that the Labour voter should have voted Tory and if they didn’t they have no right to complain?
Can’t you see how ridiculous that is?
Its more that a hung parliament makes everything difficult. I would still expect Brexit to happen and to include an end to freedom of movement. There will be a riot if it doesn't.No, because FPTP renders votes meaningless for any party below second in a constituency. Also, I voted for a party whose leadership insisted they stand for leaving the single market, which in your language is a hard Brexit. On this basis over 80% voted for parties promising a hard Brexit, and both of those parties said the manner was settled before the election, which then proceded on the basis of all the other multiple issues on which GEs are fought.
What is really happening here is that the vast majority of the ruling class has been determined to scupper Breixt since the referendum and is using this election result as an excuse to flood the airwaves with sophistry of the kind that you are presenting here.
Don't forget that WES thinks anyone who voted Lasbour is mental anyway
Northern Monkey ... who can't upload a bleeding Avatar
I don't think it's sophistry to point out that Corbyn was never going to get elected so a vote for Labour was a vote for (at best) a minority government. And minority governments have to compromise, both within their party and outside of their party. It's rather important to remember that over 16 million people voted to remain, so the likelihood that a minority government was going to get a hard Brexit through was always very unlikely.No, because FPTP renders votes meaningless for any party below second in a constituency. Also, I voted for a party whose leadership insisted they stand for leaving the single market, which in your language is a hard Brexit. On this basis over 80% voted for parties promising a hard Brexit, and both of those parties said the manner was settled before the election, which then proceded on the basis of all the other multiple issues on which GEs are fought.
What is really happening here is that the vast majority of the ruling class has been determined to scupper Breixt since the referendum and is using this election result as an excuse to flood the airwaves with sophistry of the kind that you are presenting here.
And the Tories and Labour never promised a hard Brexit, that is just completely untrue. The Tories made it clear that it was an option, Labour were much more cautious.
Of course, we also don't know what May would actually have done had she received a strong majority. There were rumours about that she had already told the EU that she was willing to compromise once she had the majority. Now that would have resulted in sophistry of epic proportions.
See above, it was clear that a minority government was going to struggle to get a hard Brexit through so Labour voters who voted for Brexit and wanted a hard Brexit had a difficult decision to make.
Life's a bitch sometimes.
Last edited by World's End Stella; 06-14-2017 at 01:48 PM.
No. When I did my first degree, '89-92, it was free for us, costly for EU students and downright extortionate for out and out foreigners.
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