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Thread: :clap: The Boy Owen got there first.

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Not quite. There are objective truths to be found in observable, empirical science. Things we know make life better for humans. Of course, science is always open to refutation (unlike religion, and particularly Islam).
    Scientists have made errors in empirical, observable science as well, Monty. Ultimately, people with your belief set put the same amount of faith in the human mind that those who hold religious beliefs put in their chosen religion.

    Despite the fact that there is overwhelming evidence of the limitations of the human mind. Remarkable really. Or, to put it another way, astonishingly arrogant and superficial.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I disagree. The reasons why a woman should be treated equally to a man can be found in science, or at least are supported by science.
    No they're not. Scientifically, women are physically inferior to men, meaning they should be discriminated against in certain types of employment. They also have a tendency to get pregnant, which makes them a nightmare to employ. Instead, our anti-discrimination laws exist in spite of women's manifest and scientifically-demonstrable inferiority. That in fact makes them anti-scientific.

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    I got mine on ebay but that is thoroughly beside the point.
    So Open University then? Or do they do a poly nowadays as well?

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Sure, but we all have articles of faith, don't we? For us it's pretty much a mechanical article of faith to say that democracy is good, free speech is good, women and gays should have the same rights as straight men and that there should be no racial discrimination.

    We take those things as givens, but they are anything but in global and historical terms. They are, in fact, simply products of our time, our society and moral outlook. Equally, the belief that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger is just as much a given to a billion or so muslims worldwide. We may see it as madness, but it's nothing of the sort. It's just a different belief system.
    I'm not saying it is madness. Just that it is not a position dictated or arrived at by a logical process. Having a cup of tea when you fancy one is entirely sensible. It is not logical.

    Those articles of faith you mention are as much soundbites as anything. We mention free speech but you don't have to talk to people for long before you find out that an awful lot of people who profess to believe in it are quick to curb it where they identify a greater harm than its curtailment. It an ideal, a nicety, not a mission of blind faith or belief.

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    No they're not. Scientifically, women are physically inferior to men, meaning they should be discriminated against in certain types of employment. They also have a tendency to get pregnant, which makes them a nightmare to employ. Instead, our anti-discrimination laws exist in spite of women's manifest and scientifically-demonstrable inferiority. That in fact makes them anti-scientific.
    Oh, sorry, I should have qualified. Of course I think women should be discriminated against men in certain instances (and vice versa). I should have said that equality of opportunity - meritocracy - is the optimum system (albeit an imperfect one) for society to operate in a way that is beneficial to all humans.
    Last edited by Monty92; 05-23-2017 at 02:21 PM.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Not quite. There are objective truths to be found in observable, empirical science. Things we know make life better for humans. Of course, science is always open to refutation (unlike religion, and particularly Islam).
    If you define truth as the limits of human experience and knowledge observed through controlled experiment. Most people define that as science. Truth is something rather more elusive. Science is constructed to answer a question but never forget that somebody asked that question in the first place.

    Remember, there was a time when we believed it was a universal truth that three at the back didn't work.

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    Scientists have made errors in empirical, observable science as well, Monty. Ultimately, people with your belief set put the same amount of faith in the human mind that those who hold religious beliefs put in their chosen religion.

    Despite the fact that there is overwhelming evidence of the limitations of the human mind. Remarkable really. Or, to put it another way, astonishingly arrogant and superficial.
    I put no more faith in the human mind than you do when you have an x-ray and get told that that headache you've been experiencing is not in fact a brain tumur. The reason you breath a massive sigh of relief and walk home with a skip in your step is because you put the same amount of faith in the human mind that those who hold religious beliefs put in their chosen religion.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    So Open University then? Or do they do a poly nowadays as well?
    There are no polys. The phrase you are looking for is 'post-92'.

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    If you define truth as the limits of human experience and knowledge observed through controlled experiment. Most people define that as science. Truth is something rather more elusive. Science is constructed to answer a question but never forget that somebody asked that question in the first place.

    Remember, there was a time when we believed it was a universal truth that three at the back didn't work.
    No, not us. Not Arsenal supporters surely?
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I put no more faith in the human mind than you do when you have an x-ray and get told that that headache you've been experiencing is not in fact a brain tumur. The reason you breath a massive sigh of relief and walk home with a skip in your step is because you put the same amount of faith in the human mind that those who hold religious beliefs put in their chosen religion.
    Not to mention a degree of faith in the NHS, a true test for the professed believer.

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