:clap: The Boy Owen got there first.

[Monty92]

So all practicing, dutiful muslims want to do it, or certainly should want to? And any that don't are not dutiful muslims? Or just not being rational?

Yes they should want to do it, if they believe the Quran contains the immutable word of Allah, which they almost universally claim it does.

[SWv2]

I suppose it can be, but it doesn't have to be. Exhibit A: Arsene Wenger.

Testify Red.

[Peter]

If you believe what they believe, their actions are utterly logical. In the same way that a person caught in the grips of a psychotic episode, convinced they are hearing voices compelling them to murder, would also be acting logically.

You think that is logical? A voice in your head telling you to do something?

I am not convinced that understand the term.

[Burney]

You think that is logical? A voice in your head telling you to do something?

I am not convinced that understand the term.

Logic can be impeccable, but still arrive at a completely erroneous conclusion if it embarks from a false premise.

[Monty92]

But would you suggest that all dutiful Christians in their right mind would act the same?

No, because there is nothing in their holy book that compels them to go to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Christian rule.

However, if you were to ask me whether the most rational, logical way for a practicing dutiful Christian to view homosexuality, is to believe it is sinful, then I would say yes.

[Monty92]

You think that is logical? A voice in your head telling you to do something?

I am not convinced that understand the term.

You're missing my point. To them, it is logical.

To tell a muslim that it is illogical to blow themselves up in a crowd of unbelievers is akin to telling a mad person in the grips of a psychotic episode that the voices in their head are not real and they should just go home, have a nice cup of tea and get an early night.

Except, thankfully, we don't need to do this with the overwhelming majority of muslims, because they have implicitly disavowed their faith.

[World's End Stella]

Yes. Clearly something wrong with them, like following a savage, barbaric medieval religion which appears to be growing in strength and even at a state level revels in this sort of enlightened behaviour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-s...n-s-sharia-law

This is an entirely different matter, and one that I expect we will have common ground on.

While I refuse to accept that people who blow themselves up in public are representative of our Muslim communities, the desire for the implementation of Sharia Law is far more common and without question needs to be challenged. We've been far too tolerant and your and Burney's endless railing against the left is perfectly appropriate when it comes to Sharia Law. It is a disgrace that we have even considered allowing any form of its implementation and making this clear to our Muslim communities should be part of any government's agenda.

But there is a great deal of distance between wanting Sharia Law and blowing yourself up in public.

[Peter]

Logic can be impeccable, but still arrive at a completely erroneous conclusion if it embarks from a false premise.

Very true. By the same token, doing as you are instructed to do is not a logical act. It can be an act of obedience, of self-preservation, of belief. By definition it is derived not by any logical process but by instruction. Be it religious doctrine or voices in your head.

[World's End Stella]

The disaffected? The social outcasts? Most of the 9/11 hijackers had PhDs!! Many Islamic terrorists are western educated and have all the opportunities and privileges one could hope for in life.

I'm calling you on the 9/11 PhDs comment. 19 hijackers, so 10 or more had PhDs from legitimate universities, did they? I'm calling you a liar and will apologise if you have any credible evidence that this is true.

I didn't say that all Islamists are disaffected or social outcasts, but I expect an awful lot of them are, certainly those who grew up in Britain. You'll note the number who were petty criminals prior to their 'conversion' to Islam.

[Burney]

This is an entirely different matter, and one that I expect we will have common ground on.

While I refuse to accept that people who blow themselves up in public are representative of our Muslim communities, the desire for the implementation of Sharia Law is far more common and without question needs to be challenged. We've been far too tolerant and your and Burney's endless railing against the left is perfectly appropriate when it comes to Sharia Law. It is a disgrace that we have even considered allowing any form of its implementation and making this clear to our Muslim communities should be part of any government's agenda.

But there is a great deal of distance between wanting Sharia Law and blowing yourself up in public.

Ah, but not as much distance as there should be. It's actually a relatively short step from 'The kuffar are accepting Sharia as dictated by the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) in the Quran' to 'I must impose Sharia on the kuffar by my direct actions as required by the Quran'.

Once you start to tolerate the craziness, it's the thin end of the wedge.