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Thread: :clap: The Boy Owen got there first.

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    Oh, sorry, I should have qualified. Of course I think women should be discriminated against men in certain instances (and vice versa). I should have said that equality of opportunity - meritocracy - is the optimum system for society to operate in a way that is beneficial to all humans.
    But billions of people worldwide don't agree, m.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I believe that our system is the best and most beneficent that mankind has ever come up with. However, all I'm trying to get across is that it is as much based in our faith in a set of ideas and beliefs as is the Islamic model.

    So you and I can point to all the achievements of western liberal civilisation until we're blue in the face as evidence of our superiority, but there are many who look at our society and find it corrupt, decadent and disgusting and would prefer one that fits their belief system. They believe the world is better when women know their place, when people don't drink and when homosexuals and adulterous wives are killed.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I put no more faith in the human mind than you do when you have an x-ray and get told that that headache you've been experiencing is not in fact a brain tumur. The reason you breath a massive sigh of relief and walk home with a skip in your step is because you put the same amount of faith in the human mind that those who hold religious beliefs put in their chosen religion.
    I've never said otherwise. The difference between us is that I don't consider people who place their faith in religion to be anymore or less stupid, deranged or mentally ill than those who don't. It is that, that is arrogant and superficial.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    There are no polys. The phrase you are looking for is 'post-92'.
    Sure there are, they just call them really sh1t universities nowadays, thanks to the genius of Labour and Tony Blair.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    I've never said otherwise. The difference between us is that I don't consider people who place their faith in religion to be anymore or less stupid, deranged or mentally ill than those who don't. It is that, that is arrogant and superficial.
    But we can, objectively, be far more certain that the Quran was written by a common-or-garden terrestrial being than that it was written by a bloke who flew to the moon on a horse.

    Therefore, even if you consider they both derive from faith, it follows that we rightly consider those who believe the latter to be more stupid than those who believe the former. Because of the levels of probability at play.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    Sure there are, they just call them really sh1t universities nowadays, thanks to the genius of Labour and Tony Blair.
    Nice try, but the term post 92 is not an accident. All polytechnics became universities under John Major. Nothing to do with Mr Blair or the Labour Party.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    But billions of people worldwide don't agree, m.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I believe that our system is the best and most beneficent that mankind has ever come up with. However, all I'm trying to get across is that it is as much based in our faith in a set of ideas and beliefs as is the Islamic model.

    So you and I can point to all the achievements of western liberal civilisation until we're blue in the face as evidence of our superiority, but there are many who look at our society and find it corrupt, decadent and disgusting and would prefer one that fits their belief system. They believe the world is better when women know their place, when people don't drink and when homosexuals and adulterous wives are killed.
    I know all that. But my point is that it is only our position that is backed up by science. The only reason to dispute this is if you don't believe in science. Which is fine. But I know you do.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Nice try, but the term post 92 is not an accident. All polytechnics became universities under John Major. Nothing to do with Mr Blair or the Labour Party.
    Major was almost as bad a limp socialist as Cameron and, God help us, Comrade May.

    I despair.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Major was almost as bad a limp socialist as Cameron and, God help us, Comrade May.

    I despair.
    Suffered through our own sense of snobbery and class, I'm afraid. The model of universities vs applied science universities works very well in Europe. Here the polys were simply viewed as poor relations of universities.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Nice try, but the term post 92 is not an accident. All polytechnics became universities under John Major. Nothing to do with Mr Blair or the Labour Party.
    Well, I'll admit that my modern English history is limited to post 95 when I arrived. And even that isn't very good.

    But it was Blair that wanted to get the post secondary education numbers up to 50% wasn't it? And didn't he dumb down A levels and let pretty much every institution call themselves a university in order to do that?

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Monty92 View Post
    I know all that. But my point is that it is only our position that is backed up by science. The only reason to dispute this is if you don't believe in science. Which is fine. But I know you do.
    What scientific evidence proves that the world is a better place if people are allowed to drink?

    The key word there is better. It clearly indicates a value judgement, at which point the true scientist retreats to his lab and leaves you to it.

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