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Thread: Is Wenger being selfish?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    I'm terribly glad you didn't mention nonsense like it 'being in their blood', because we know, do we not, that supporting a club is a hobby; an occasionally emotional hobby, sometimes rooted in tribalism, sometimes driven by a sense of place or belonging, but still a hobby. Blokes who go to Middlesrough for a league game on a Tuesday night aren't doing anything for the club, they're going because they enjoy the experience (and possibly because they are social and sexual failures, but anyway). It is an entirely selfish matter and an entirely objective judgement. If you don't like it, don't go.
    More sour grapes, is it
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  2. #52
    He is being selfish, of course, although which of us would resign from a job which paid that handsomely where we were allowed to pretty much set and adjust our own targets, accountable to no-one.

    So while I have nothing left for him but contempt, in mitigation his bosses have been negligent for allowing him the licence which would bring out the greed in many of us. In other words, they have failed to save him from himself.

    Yeah, he was once a very good manager but he has chosen money and self-delusion over being remembered for what he once achieved. Whenever he now deems fit to abdicate from his throne, "It's too late, baby, now it's too late...."
    Last edited by Yesterday Once More; 03-20-2017 at 02:50 PM.
    No statue, no stand named, no testimonial match. He has had his reward for earlier efforts, and then some.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Yesterday Once More View Post
    He is being selfish, of course, although which of us would resign from a job which paid that handsomely where we were allowed to pretty much set and adjust our own targets, accountable to no-one.

    So while I have nothing left for him but contempt, in mitigation his bosses have been negligent for allowing him the licence which would bring out the greed in many of us. In other words, they have failed to save him from himself.

    Yeah, he was once a very good manager but he has chosen money and self-delusion over being remembered for what he once achieved. Whenever he now deems fit to abdicate from his throne, "It's too late, baby, now it's too late...."
    Hang on, maybe he's going to resign at the end of the season. How do we know he's not? All we have in hard evidence is that he has said he will manage at Arsenal or somewhere else next season and that Sir Chips said he appreciates that some fans are unhappy but they will reach a mutual decision for the long term future of the club.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir C View Post
    Of course if the Wenger Out enthusiasts were a large majority, and if they really believed that they were acting in the club's best interests in having the manager removed, we would fail to sell half our season tickets this spring and then you'd see a reaction from the owner.

    Of course these people will continue to pay as if they have no agency in the matter, and then moan about what they receive for their money
    This is based on the asumption that in football, supply-and-demand operates in the same way as every other business.

    Which, of course, it completely doesn't.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    True, but the majority of the people who would blame the fans are the same people who routinely denigrated the fans who have held the view that Wenger needed to go. They criticized their intellect, their social background, their maturity and even their mothers. Some of them were told they needed a new hobby.

    So these same people are now faced with a choice; admit they were wrong and that the people they disparaged so viciously were right, or blame them again. Unsurprisingly many will choose to do the latter as they aren't big enough to do the former.
    Whether he should leave now is not the same question as whether he should have left then.

    Though the insults and abuse were/are never ok. From either side.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    This is based on the asumption that in football, supply-and-demand operates in the same way as every other business.

    Which, of course, it completely doesn't.
    And yet these fans demand the service they feel they have paid for in the form of results and trophies and whatnot, don't they? They feel they are entitled to value for money based on what they pay. The fact that they're too stupid to realise that the club can only charge what the market will bear and - as long as they keep coming back - that's whatever the club likes does not alter the fact that the market is still operating around them.

    They are the anomaly and - as long as they keep behaving anomalously - they'll get what they deserve.
    Last edited by Burney; 03-20-2017 at 03:19 PM.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    And yet these fans demand the service they feel they have paid for in the form of results and trophies and whatnot, don't they? They feel they are entitled to value for money based on what they pay. The fact that they're too stupid to realise that the club can only charge what the market will bear and - as long as they keep coming back - that's whatever the club likes does not alter the fact that the market is still operating around them.

    They are the anomaly and - as long as they keep behaving anomalously - they'll get what they deserve.
    On one hand you are insisting that market rules apply, and fans are just stupid versions of customers for coming back, but if those customers demand value for money, as customers do in every other business you lampoon this as absurd. Can't have it both ways, imo.

    Perhaps a way to understand it is to recognise that the football club holds a monopoly over supporters of that football club.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    On one hand you are insisting that market rules apply, and fans are just stupid versions of customers for coming back, but if those customers demand value for money, as customers do in every other business you lampoon this as absurd. Can't have it both ways, imo.

    Perhaps a way to understand it is to recognise that the football club holds a monopoly over supporters of that football club.
    Yes, well said. It's no different than telling someone that uses the Underground every day that they have no right to complain because they keep using it and paying for it.

    It's nonsense and, as you said earlier, there is no comparison between someone who supports a football club and someone who chooses a product in a market economy, which is the parallel Burney is trying draw.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    Yes, well said. It's no different than telling someone that uses the Underground every day that they have no right to complain because they keep using it and paying for it.

    It's nonsense and, as you said earlier, there is no comparison between someone who supports a football club and someone who chooses a product in a market economy, which is the parallel Burney is trying draw.
    Travelling on the tube might well be a financial necessity. Going to watch your football team is an emotional, subjective decision. If you can't control your emotions you probably shouldn't be allowed out without an adult, should you?

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    Yes, well said. It's no different than telling someone that uses the Underground every day that they have no right to complain because they keep using it and paying for it.

    It's nonsense and, as you said earlier, there is no comparison between someone who supports a football club and someone who chooses a product in a market economy, which is the parallel Burney is trying draw.
    Your parallel with the tube is absurd. No-one goes on the tube for their amusement. They do it because they have to and there is in many cases no alternative. No-one needs to go to football. It is a leisure activity and nothing more. If people treat it as something more, more fool them.

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