In London, who are the people protesting against President Trump?

[Monty92]

So, if the government required all heterosexual men to attend rape awareness courses your attitude would be 'well, people of my sex and sexual orientation are almost entirely responsible for rape so it really makes sense for me to attend the course so that we can understand why men rape women and work with the authorities to try and eliminate it'.

Yeah, course you would.

If Berni had advocated all muslims having to attend mandatory terrorist awareness courses, this would be a good point

[Monty92]

A clever Allan terrorist would not be hanging around mosques.

So you think the current policies are wrong?

[World's End Stella]

No-one is pre-judging. We are merely talking about weighing the balance of probabilities in order to narrow the search, not waste time and give one the best possible chance of stopping crime in the shortest time possible. Because stopping crime is good, you see?
If there's a rape case, I'm not going to waste my time DNA testing female subjects or gay men. Equally, if I've got intelligence of an Islamic terror plot, I'm not going to waste my time questioning the Chinese community. Nothing 'evil' about that.

We will leave people feeling pre-judged, though. And we shouldn't under-estimate the downside of this, Burney. Stigmatising a cross-section of our society and leaving them feeling alienated is really not a good thing.

Sometimes unavoidable, I agree, my point is only that we need to be sensitive in this regard.

[SWv2]

So you think the current policies are wrong?

I'm not entirely sure what the policies are big man because quite frankly I don't give two ****s about it all.

Generally speaking I not big on getting bogged down on current affairs and issues of global terrorism.

[World's End Stella]

If Berni had advocated all muslims having to attend mandatory terrorist awareness courses, this would be a good point

Or if he had suggested that targeting communities as a whole instead of individuals within those communities when attempting to address an issue. In that case it would also be a good point.

Consider the concept, not necessarily the implementation, Monty.

[Burney]

We will leave people feeling pre-judged, though. And we shouldn't under-estimate the downside of this, Burney. Stigmatising a cross-section of our society and leaving them feeling alienated is really not a good thing.

Sometimes unavoidable, I agree, my point is only that we need to be sensitive in this regard.

Sensitivity is fine, but it goes out of the window when there are potentially lives at stake, I'm afraid. Anyone who can't see that is already fûcked in the head.

To adapt your earlier example to a more precise analogy, would I feel stigmatised as a man if I were asked to rule myself out of a rape enquiry and then asked to keep a look out for a potential rapist in my neighbourhood and report any suspects? Of course not, as I'm not a rapist.
Equally, the only people likely to feel stigmatised as potential terrorists are to my mind ALREADY suspicious to the point of being potential terrorists by virtue of feeling that way. If they weren't potential terrorists, it wouldn't occur to them to feel resentment, since they'd see the logic of the approach and bow to the greater good.

[Ash]

I'm not entirely sure what the policies are big man because quite frankly I don't give two ****s about it all.

Generally speaking I not big on getting bogged down on current affairs and issues of global terrorism.

But you probably cared about Northern Irish catholics getting profiled back during the Troubles. Innocent men went to jail, and 'clampdowns' on nationalist communities arguably did as much to increase support for the armalite as it did too prevent terrorism/armed struggle.

Though you would probably agree that treating elderly Pakistani women as equal suspects in cases where the IRA claimed responsibility for a Spectacular would be tactically a bad move for the authorities.

[Burney]

Or if he had suggested that targeting communities as a whole instead of individuals within those communities when attempting to address an issue. In that case it would also be a good point.

Consider the concept, not necessarily the implementation, Monty.

Individuals are to communities as fish are to water. If you're trying to catch a fish, you have to first 'target' the water.

[World's End Stella]

Sensitivity is fine, but it goes out of the window when there are potentially lives at stake, I'm afraid. Anyone who can't see that is already fûcked in the head.

To adapt your earlier example to a more precise analogy, would I feel stigmatised as a man if I were asked to rule myself out of a rape enquiry and then asked to keep a look out for a potential rapist in my neighbourhood and report any suspects? Of course not, as I'm not a rapist.
Equally, the only people likely to feel stigmatised as potential terrorists are to my mind ALREADY suspicious to the point of being potential terrorists by virtue of feeling that way. If they weren't potential terrorists, it wouldn't occur to them to feel resentment, since they'd see the logic of the approach and bow to the greater good.

Not sure if it ever made it over here, but when I worked in Toronto in the early 90s feminists asked all men to wear pink ribbons on their suit jackets as a demonstration of their support for the elimination of violence committed by men against women.

I refused to participate for obvious reasons. I see very little difference between that and plastering anti-terrorism posters all over predominantly Muslim areas, as an example.

[Monty92]

Sensitivity is fine, but it goes out of the window when there are potentially lives at stake, I'm afraid. Anyone who can't see that is already fûcked in the head.

To adapt your earlier example to a more precise analogy, would I feel stigmatised as a man if I were asked to rule myself out of a rape enquiry and then asked to keep a look out for a potential rapist in my neighbourhood and report any suspects? Of course not, as I'm not a rapist.
Equally, the only people likely to feel stigmatised as potential terrorists are to my mind ALREADY suspicious to the point of being potential terrorists by virtue of feeling that way. If they weren't potential terrorists, it wouldn't occur to them to feel resentment, since they'd see the logic of the approach and bow to the greater good.

I don't agree with your final paragraph as we know that a sense of victimhood is ingrained in many peaceful, law-abiding muslims, just as it is many black people and women. And so stigmatisation does not necessarily point to guilt.