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Thread: Where does Awimb stand on abortion?

  1. #21
    It's a pretty big topic in Northern Ireland as it isn't legal here. Women face having to travel to England to get an abortion.

    I don't agree with abortion on demand, but it should be available in rape & FFA cases.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    It's nothing to do with catholicism. Anyone who actually thinks seriously about it independently of all the political baggage knows damn well that human life begins at the point of conception, since anything else is just nonsensical. And, once you have accepted that fact, all your subsequent rationalisations must surely be made on that basis?
    A bunch of dividing cells is not a human life.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    It's a necessary evil. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe it must be legal and available within certain limits, but at the same time, I believe it's important to remember that it is the destruction of human life and ought to be treated with the moral and intellectual seriousness that fact merits.
    Ultimately, I believe that in an awful lot of cases it is profoundly immoral, but must be available for fear of the alternative.
    As an adopted person, I'm rather glad my mother didn't choose the other option but then again without it I'd have an 18 yr old and 16 yr old with a psycho ex-girlfirend.....

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PSRB View Post
    As an adopted person, I'm rather glad my mother didn't choose the other option but then again without it I'd have an 18 yr old and 16 yr old with a psycho ex-girlfirend.....
    Yes, sometimes we have to think of the children.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    A bunch of dividing cells is not a human life.
    Except of course in purely cold, hard, scientific terms it definitely is. There is literally no other logical point from which you can determine the beginning of life than conception - which is why it's called conception, of course.
    What I find interesting is how those who choose to argue otherwise - who would normally consider themselves to be rational and non-religious - start adopting quasi-religious ideas about when life truly begins when it comes to this issue in order to justify their position.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    It's nothing to do with catholicism. Anyone who actually thinks seriously about it independently of all the political baggage knows damn well that human life begins at the point of conception, since anything else is just nonsensical. And, once you have accepted that fact, all your subsequent rationalisations must surely be made on that basis?
    No, I'm afraid I disagree. 'Human life' is a very nebulous concept when applied to a foetus. It isn't complicated because people don't think about it seriously, it's complicated because it's complicated.

    And I haven't even gone down the 'what does human life have to do with the debate and why was it introduced in the first place?' line.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by World's End Stella View Post
    No, I'm afraid I disagree. 'Human life' is a very nebulous concept when applied to a foetus. It isn't complicated because people don't think about it seriously, it's complicated because it's complicated.

    And I haven't even gone down the 'what does human life have to do with the debate and why was it introduced in the first place?' line.
    It's complicated because people dishonestly try to hide from the brutal truth of what is being done - namely the termination of human life. Once you remove that dishonesty and obfuscation from the equation and treat it as a brutal, purely utilitarian proposition about the value of one life in relation to others, many of its complications fall away.

    And the reason we introduce human life into the debate is because a/ that's what's happening here and b/ the right to life or its obverse the right to take it are pretty fundamental ones when it comes to questions of law and ethics.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    It's complicated because people dishonestly try to hide from the brutal truth of what is being done - namely the termination of human life. Once you remove that dishonesty and obfuscation from the equation and treat it as a brutal, purely utilitarian proposition about the value of one life in relation to others, many of its complications fall away.

    And the reason we introduce human life into the debate is because a/ that's what's happening here and b/ the right to life or its obverse the right to take it are pretty fundamental ones when it comes to questions of law and ethics.
    It is legal in your country and you are still arguing and debating. You want to see the **** that flies over here about this.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SWv2 View Post
    It is legal in your country and you are still arguing and debating. You want to see the **** that flies over here about this.
    Crucially, though, I don't think any of us has suggested that it ought not to be legal. Making it illegal is just mental.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    It's complicated because people dishonestly try to hide from the brutal truth of what is being done - namely the termination of human life. Once you remove that dishonesty and obfuscation from the equation and treat it as a brutal, purely utilitarian proposition about the value of one life in relation to others, many of its complications fall away.

    And the reason we introduce human life into the debate is because a/ that's what's happening here and b/ the right to life or its obverse the right to take it are pretty fundamental ones when it comes to questions of law and ethics.
    In which case a person in a vegetative state without any active brain pattern is also a 'human life' and turning off the life support system is the moral equivalent of murder.

    See how easily it gets complicated? The human life angle and conception were introduced because of the Catholic church's opposition to abortion. It isn't in anyway disingenuous or dishonest to question the definition of human life and argue that because it is impossible to define it therefore has no bearing on the argument.

    Much of that confusion you mention goes away if that is your perspective as well.

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