Is it possible for the West to do anything right in the Middle East?

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I'm not automatically discounting all stories. Just being sceptical and opposed to attempts to use real or fake atrocity porn to whip up fervour for deeper involvement.

That's Fairy Nuff.

Personally, I don't see a solution until Islam has a Reformation.

And I can't see that happening while they're poor, jealous of the west and Israel, and need to feel being the truest to the revealed word of Allah (as opposed to challenging it) makes them morally superior to those they are jealous of.

So yes. Leave well alone. But until they have a Reformation, I don't see a solution.

[Ash]

Lordy, a, have you been reading The G? You've picked up all the lingo, dude. DOES THIS MEAN YOU'RE ONE OF THEY ALT-RIGHT NAZIS?

Seriously though, this does all sound a bit global conspiracy. In truth, isn't it more like a bit of a balls up all round?

I don't believe that an awareness of the US foreign policy establishment makes one a 'global conspiracist'. Other than in the sense of a group of people sitting round a table and agreeing on a policy which they will try to execute. Call that a conspiracy if you like. The neo-cons aren't made up.

[Sir C]

That's Fairy Nuff.

Personally, I don't see a solution until Islam has a Reformation.

And I can't see that happening while they're poor, jealous of the west and Israel, and need to feel being the truest to the revealed word of Allah (as opposed to challenging it) makes them morally superior to those they are jealous of.

So yes. Leave well alone. But until they have a Reformation, I don't see a solution.

The real doodoo will hit the fan when, in ten years time, there is little demand for oil any more from the motor industry. Then they really will be skint. And angry.

[eastgermanautos]

The usual one-sided reporting of unverified claims, which even if true, only ever seem to be about offenses committed by forces aligned to one side (the Syrian government) in the battle for East Aleppo, with the aim of raising the clamour for somethingmustbedonery in support of the 'rebels' (new name for Al-Queda).

We don't know what is happening in Al-Queda-held areas because these people, y'know, tend to chop journalists heads off, so we rely on 'tweets' and 'doctors' which are assumed to be geniune. I suspect they are from the same PR sources funded by Washington and Westminster which have been providing the same drip-drip of propaganda for the last five years.

http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-pro...-month-produce

Like the story of protest singer Ibrahim Qashoush, reported by BBC, CNN, Guardian, Telegraph, to have been brutally murdered by the 'regime', with his vocal chords cut out, who turns up alive and well in Spain. #fakenews

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/syria-civil-war

The West *is* intervening in the conflict in Syria, and the conflict exists because the West started the civil war in the first place (or massively helped it along) with the familiar aim of regime change. And with the familiar outcome which as usual is being blamed on other sides and dutifully reported as such in the usual places.

I love the way you say, "clamour." The only thing I would say is that this is a very long way from the English effrontery of the 19th century. And a very nice effrontery it was too.

[eastgermanautos]

I love the way you say, "clamour." The only thing I would say is that this is a very long way from the English effrontery of the 19th century. And a very nice effrontery it was too.

Personally I like what we've done up in Saudi Arabia. And let's not forget Qatar. Nice little country they've got there.

[World's End Stella]

Not our fault, not your fault, not my fault. When I say 'west' I don't mean you and me I refer to the neo-cons and lib-hawks that make these policies. The elite. The so-called experts whose wisdom we are supposed to defer to on questions of our own national sovereignty, and everybody elses.

Just to be clear - you don't think the 'West' has any responsibility for Shias wanting to kill Sunnis and Sunnis wanting to kill Shias, right?

[Ash]

Just to be clear - you don't think the 'West' has any responsibility for Shias wanting to kill Sunnis and Sunnis wanting to kill Shias, right?

I'm not saying there aren't bitter and violent divisions within the region. However these are exploited, just as they have been through history, by outside forces. Canadian independent journalist Eve Bartlett who has been to Syria several times reports that the country is not sectarian as reported, and that Aleppo is overwhelmingly Sunni and is with the government.

https://youtu.be/g1VNQGsiP8M?t=4m27s

[Ash]

Isn't the problem that just when things start to get really messy in these conflicts, the west loses its nerve, in large part because of political pressure back home imposed by 'progressives' and squeamish anti-war movements. Like when Obama talked about the 'red line' of Assad using chemical weapons and then pussying out when he did.

Some detail on the Sarin attack, from an ex-CIA analyst, published on the site of the guy who broke the Iran-Contra story. You won't have read how a Turkish MP proved in his parliament how Sarin gas was shipped to ISIS in Turkey, bacause apart from the Belfast Telegraph, no English language outlet reported the story. Obama 'pussied out' as you put it, because he doubted that Assad was responsible, and after Russia persuaded Assad to destroy all chemical weapons (this happened and Syria now has no chemical weapons).

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/1...e-flag-lesson/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-34286662.html

[redgunamo]

.. independent journalist ..

https://youtu.be/g1VNQGsiP8M?t=4m27s

I've been to Syria loads of times too; how come you don't believe *me*?

[Lady Henry AKA The African Queen]

Some detail on the Sarin attack, from an ex-CIA analyst, published on the site of the guy who broke the Iran-Contra story. You won't have read how a Turkish MP proved in his parliament how Sarin gas was shipped to ISIS in Turkey, bacause apart from the Belfast Telegraph, no English language outlet reported the story. Obama 'pussied out' as you put it, because he doubted that Assad was responsible, and after Russia persuaded Assad to destroy all chemical weapons (this happened and Syria now has no chemical weapons).

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/1...e-flag-lesson/

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-34286662.html

Everything Ash said.
Some of the comments are deeply disturbing and verge on racism veiled in 'analysis'.
To ignore the reasons for the conflicts - and why it continues to be funded/ supported - and just discuss along the lines of 'they are warmongering batbarians so let's colonize/ leave them to die' is the Sun and Daily Mail at their best.

Not sure why I expected better reasoned debate on a football forum.
I guess the assumption we Gooners are more cerebral than the rest must flounder with our team's performance last night.