Hey, at least we can take comfort from the words of the Orlando shooter’s father

[The Jorge]

What is the more ‘narrow’ problem, in this instance, in your opinion?

You seem to be the expert on the more myopic end of things

[Burney]

You mean exactly as Jorge has done above?

Sure, but you expected nothing else, surely?

What I find irritating in these situations is when some muslim cleric immediately pops up to mouth the usual boilerplate condemning the killings and no reporter actually asks them what it is that their holy book actually says about gay people and how they should be dealt with.

[The Jorge]

Well it's a part of several wider problems, really. One is the availability of guns in the US, another is homophobia in general, another is radical Islam, but another is Islam and whether a faithful adherence to all of its tenets is compatible with life in a socially liberal western culture. Focusing on one of those issues does not obviate the others, I'm afraid.

Given he's killed a bunch of people in the middle of the holy month I'm going out on a limb to say he's not the most devout adherent.

[Monty92]

You seem to be the expert on the more myopic end of things

Seriously man, what are your thoughts?

Western foreign policy the likely motive, or simply an entirely non-religious dislike of gayers?

[Monty92]

Sure, but you expected nothing else, surely?

What I find irritating in these situations is when some muslim cleric immediately pops up to mouth the usual boilerplate condemning the killings and no reporter actually asks them what it is that their holy book actually says about gay people and how they should be dealt with.

Yes, like the Imman who used to preach at the same mosque attended by the shooter, expressing his “great sadness” and how he may disapprove of gay people’s lifestyle but they are equally free to disapprove of his.

As if that admission alone is not hugely, hugely problematic.

[Burney]

Given he's killed a bunch of people in the middle of the holy month I'm going out on a limb to say he's not the most devout adherent.

Not really. There's nothing that precludes the pursuit of Jihad during Ramadan.

[The Jorge]

Seriously man, what are your thoughts?

Western foreign policy the likely motive, or simply an entirely non-religious dislike of gayers?

It's hard to know really. But he seems to be a religious nutter, not that it makes him alone over there.

[The Jorge]

Not really. There's nothing that precludes the pursuit of Jihad during Ramadan.

Kind of one of the big things about Ramadan is that you're on your best behaviour. And you'll know that Jihad is a much wider thing too then, presumably.

[Burney]

Kind of one of the big things about Ramadan is that you're on your best behaviour. And you'll know that Jihad is a much wider thing too then, presumably.

Yes, but since he is explicitly following the instructions laid out by his religion in his actions, he could quite easily have justified his actions as holy and therefore not only not in contravention of Ramadan, but actively in keeping with it.

[The Jorge]

Yes, but since he is explicitly following the instructions laid out by his religion in his actions, he could quite easily have justified his actions as holy and therefore not only not in contravention of Ramadan, but actively in keeping with it.

Sure, though the Quoran is also pretty against killing people in other places. It's a bit like the bible like that.